27 Comments, Comment or Ping

  1. Re: Timelessness, Very interesting thought! I also like the one about never seeing the world the way it truely is. I used to say this about people, how we are different to different people. That we don’t know a person, we only know the mask that person puts on when communicating with us, and that a person uses different masks with different people.

  2. Yeah. Timeliness is very important for news writing. There are many elements of a news. And timeliness is one of them. Yesterday news is the history. Today’s news only fulfill timeliness requirement. But future? I wonder if future is included in timeliness..

  3. Hi Shantanu - yes, it’s kinda interesting how we never truly see the world as it is, or people as they are. All we see are our preconceptions. And glad you liked timelessness - it’s amazing as well. There are no problems, ever, in the Now.

    Hi Linda - thanks for stopping by!

  4. sof theo

    Great choice of guest poster, Albert! I’m an avid reader of Kenton’s writings. He’s probably one of very few people who can write about this topic well and effectively.

    “There are no problems, ever, in the Now.” Hmmm, I wonder then how you would describe the misery of oppressed people in other parts of the world? Children dying of hunger and diseases every day when there are otherwise enough resources in the world for everyone. Would you not consider these as problems happening in the Now? Just curious what you think, Albert.

  5. Yea I’m a big fan of Kenton as well!

    Hmm good question. Given that I don’t have the direct perception of time that Kenton does, I can only speak from my limited experience. Disease would probably be a problem only if you look at it as the story - “Oh my God, I’ve got AIDS, I’m gonna die in a year, and I’m only 30 years old and what about my kids?” But if you narrow it down to the NOW - what do you have? You’re still alive, you’re still functioning. Physical discomfort, maybe. Now obviously some of that would be very painful, but a lot more manageable without the story (which is based on time).

    I remember a car accident I had last year that left me in the emergency unit. The doctors suspected I had a punctured something in my body, and they were running a lot of tests - if they were right they’d need to operate immediately or I’d die. Now the truth was I had internal bruising and bleeding but nothing life threatening. As I lay in the hospital watching them stick me with needles - how much of the suffering was caused by not being in the NOW? The story - “I’m going to die! It’s a punctured liver!” - that’s created by not being in the NOW. What is happening in the now? Me lying in bed, a dull pain in stomach, an IV drip in my hand. And that’s not a problem. Physical pain, yes, but that’s not a problem.

    Same thing with oppression. “Oh my God, this guy will shoot me if I don’t give him this much money by next month.” But if you narrow it down to the NOW - take away the story and it’s much more manageable.

    Of course, I’m not making light of the suffering that they go through - I have never been through that kind of pain and I wonder if I can think this way if I’m actually the one being oppressed and shot at and starved. So I don’t really know.

  6. Dear Albert,

    Insightful article. A really nice one.

    Thanks

  7. Hey Harsh, thanks - I’ll pass on the compliments to Kenton. Good to see you around again.

  8. I totally agree, the ego is very attached to the concept of time. It provides it with a ‘purpose’.

    One of the best articles I’ve read today. Thanks for getting such an awesome guest poster and providing such poignant content without all the fluff.

  9. Thanks John, I’ll pass on the compliments to Kenton - he’s really a fantastic writer and friend and deserves it.

  10. Greg

    Fascinating article on the fallacy that time really exists. Independently from reading this article, I have come to implicitly understand that there is no other “time” than the now and that has totally changed the way I view everything in my world. It is such an easy concept to embrace but so very difficult to implement in our contemporary society. Furthermore, trying to get others to see this is a challenge. What has been so liberating about this concept is the fact that it allows a person to truly open up to the true nature of the universe and see that there is no birth….no death….only existence NOW that has always been and always will be!!! Thanks for providing yet another spin on what is REAL…not what we perceive to be real!!

  11. Hey Greg, the true nature of time is really interesting, isn’t it? Do you have any stories to share about how it has changed your view? I’d be really interested in hearing it. Thanks for the comment.

  12. Greg

    Albert:

    Thanks for the response. In answer to your request, what comes to mind is watching anything else in nature operate……the animals around us….the plants we nourish and grow….the weather…..the seasons….all operate in a place of now! You look at how a cat conducts its day and you see clearly the reality of timelessness. Not only does the cat exists with little or no stress, it communicates an acceptance of its surroundings because that is what is! Even if stress enters the cat’s universe…it is transitory and immediately forgotten once the offending activity is passed. What has really helped me to embrace this understanding is watching my younger brother engage life over his “time” on this planet. Born with Down’s syndrome back in 1958, my brother has had a series of life experiences that would be considered “tragic’ in conventional wisdom. I, for years, felt sorry for my brother because of his perceived low state of rational functioning and how it deprived him of experiencing life as we know it. However, I have radically altered that perspective over the past few years. In observing his existence over that time I have come to understand that he lives in a perpetual state of peace and contentment because all he perceives is the “Now” of his existence. I have actually come to envy his state of being. He is always happy….always in a state of loving energy that emanates to all who come in contact with him. When he does experience discomforting states of being they exist in the moment of time and disappear as soon as the next moment arrives!!! What a wonderful way to exist. I now know why he chose to come into this world the way he did. It was to experience life in a state of total acceptance and bliss for what is happening now! Only by not being concerned or bothered by the constraints of “time” has he been able to do so and what a great lesson it has been for me.

    Let me know your thoughts on this, Albert. I look forward to hearing from you.

    Greg

  13. Greg, that sounds absolutely wonderful. Your brother sounds like a Zen master. I’ve been doing as Kenton said, and “fresh” experiences / stress really does just fly past me now without leaving a mark. I think that we have to draw a fine line between getting involved in time, and planning for the future. Like, for example, I’m planning a trip overseas, and yes I have to go into the future for that. But if I start fantasising and so on, I snap out of the Now.

    It’s a hard habit to break, which is why I guess a simple life / retreat might be the best idea? I’m not too sure on this. But your brother is really quite an inspiration.

  14. Great Stuff Guys!
    I partially disagree that “when we re-discover timelessness, we find the meaning of life.” When we “come upon” timelessness, we get a “taste” of the “meaning of life,” (just not the full course)because we come upon it through time itself. As I see it, to be completely timeless is to be GONE! This is because the reality we believe as “real” is IN time. In other words, without time there could be NO REALITY whatsoever. Because without “time” there could be no mind-body, since mind-body demands space-time for which to experience an “existence.”
    Therefore to be “timeless” is, in a sense, to be “dead” or more precisely, GONE!
    Unfortunately, that is a frightening prospect to our current time-bound “identity” and we quickly jump back from it and go “whew, almost lost myself for a moment.” (thus, there are millions in the world today who “taste” the timeless, but fear brings ‘em on back to the comfort zone)
    To BE “timeless” in perpetuity is, in essence, to not exist
    I like when Kenton writes, “If we truly examine the true nature of time, our current world view will have no choice but to collapse, and what we’ll be left with is pure enlightenment.”
    Essentially this “collapse” is what we desire and fear and it is that “tension” between desire and fear of non-existence that “allows” us to “exist.” We sense it is better than “here,” but since we don’t “know” it is better, we come back to what we know.
    My belief is that the “enlightened masters” frequently “taste” timelessness,(more frequently then the rest of us) but are not timeless in perpetuity. simply because to be without time is NOT TO BE…at all.
    LOVE THIS STUFF!!!
    Thanks, Mike

  15. Heya Mike - good to see you poking around the archives :) . Comments taken on board, but unfortunately it’s all a bit too deep for me (hence I got Kenton to write it) and so I can’t really give a meaningful response, sorry.

  16. Albert,

    That’s OK, because I’m not too sure I have any idea what I’m talking about! LOL
    I guess that’s just “the nature of the beast.”

    Thanks for having a great site!

  17. Thankyou for the fabulous information .. you are spot on when it comes to the true nature of the mind and suffering.

  18. Thank you Ashley, I’ll pass the compliments on to Kenton :)

  19. Interesting article but I’ve also got problems with the “there are no problems ever in the Now”. Let’s imagine you’re getting tortured by somebody, do you really have no problems at that time? Ok, you can just accept the situation (can’t do anything else anyway) but does that really translate in ‘no problems’ … ?

    Hm.

  20. Hi mate, I totally understand your concerns…I can’t really explain it, nor do I really understand it :)

    But Kenton’s addressed this very issue here -
    http://kentonwhitman.com/blog/.....for-peace/

    And I’ve also made a feeble attempt - although not as relevant to this:
    http://www.urbanmonk.net/154/w.....ompassion/

  21. Jeevan

    Excellent post. Seems that we cannot conceive timelessness because conceiving itself uses time. That is, thoughts have duration, so using thoughts, it is impossible to transcend time and see timelessness. However, awareness of thoughts must be occurring from timelessness. This timelessness cannot be grasped because as soon as an attempt is made, thoughts take over and we are in time.

    Not to worry because in reality, our true nature is timeless. To see the world (all objects including our body, thoughts, feelings etc) are in time, the seer (not an object) has to be timeless. Analogy would be standing on the shores and watching the river of time. If you (real subject) also flow with time, then you would not know that there is time so you must be outside time.

    Sorry, I cannot explain this well because it is from second hand knowledge, but something that fascinates me. I may work with Albert to post some of my limited understanding.

  22. Very nice stuff Jeevan, I don’t know much about Time and it’s fascinating to me, so I’m always happy to read other people’s perspectives on this. Looking forward to it.

  23. Hiya

    What still remains unclear to me, is an explanation of why/how people who are described here as so intimately aware of these proposed truths in their natural state, would then be so innately gullible and easily fooled by what is also proposed here as unnatural perception (i.e. time, ego, past/present/future, etc). Why would people be so readily able to adopt such entirely unnatural perceptions and behaviors, and unable to simply recognize these difference, if we are in fact so directly connected to what is actually “true” in the world “as it is”? Are you saying that the way we are apparently designed and made, is so incredibly and inexplicably flawed towards stupidity, that we all have an inbred mandate-like tendency to voluntarily hang ourselves in a world of non-reality? Are we not also inseparably part of this “natural” world of truth? If we are inseparable from the “true” world, then we should be indistinguishable from it - and if so, why does the world conspire against itself by allowing such destructive self-dishonesty in its/our experiences?

  24. Hmm…I’m not the author but let me attempt to say something from my own clumsy understanding…

    What does the world have to do with this? We simply think of something in the wrong way, and it just never occurs to us that we might not be seeing things as they are until someone points them out to us. It’s got nothing to do with being destructive or having the world conspire against us, I guess. It’s kinda like how we used to think the world was flat, until we found out the world was a sphere… just a different understanding of things. That is, if I am understanding your comment correctly.

    Thanks for stopping by!

  25. Hiya

    Thanks for your reply. I think that I understand what you are saying - so please allow me to clarify. Also please don’t take my questions as attacking or aggressive, they are only meant to be direct so that I can better understand and learn. I enjoy your articles and greatly appreciate your time.

    The suggestions I’ve read in these series of articles, viz. that we misperceive so much and so regularly (through the ego, linear time perception, etc) and need to correct this, would indicate that most people - perhaps nearly all people - are regularly and systematically misapprehending the very reality that we are a part of. Why would we, as inseparable parts of the same reality we are allegedly misapprehending, be so badly hard-wired as to not simply instinctively fit in naturally with the true aspects of the world (e.g. the “true” nature of time, the “true” centered self, etc), instead of regularly succumbing to the same false perceptions of the above, in a sustained fashion?

    You see, if we are part of the world that exists, we are one with it and inseparable (no barrier). So in a very real way, if we misperceive, then we would be walking examples of the world misperceiving itself. This is what I mean by saying, that if we continuously and regularly have these same proposed mass delusions - e.g. of linear time, ego-importance, etc - then as living elements of the world, we would represent the world in fact misperceiving itself (”conspiring against itself” if you will), and all with no apparent functional explanation for this - which feels very contradictory to belief.

    And if it is actually true that the majority of people are trapped in such false and illusory experience, rather than correctly apprehending the true nature of self and time and etc, then the destructive aspects of these behaviors to our lives as you have mentioned, would thus also be examples of the world (us) being destructive to itself.

    It just seems that if one is willing to subscribe to some alternate perceptions and conceptions of reality, then whatever alternative is chosen, should at least have the character of not seeming self-contradictory and/or contrary to instinctive natural experience and behavior.

    Thanks for reading this.

  26. Hehe. Again, I’m no expert on this, so I’m just going by what I’ve read. According to Alan Watts, this is part of the perfection too. Oneness or whatever you want to call it, got bored, simply because there was only oneness, so it pretended that there was more than one, i.e. playing hide and seek with itself. So even this seeming imperfection is part of the perfection too. So even all the false beliefs, the attempts to get the truth, etc - is all part of the perfection.

    I have no idea if this is true or not, but that quote just came into my head as I read your Q. Hope it helps. :)

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