55 Comments, Comment or Ping

  1. Barbara

    Albert,

    The life that has gone before…

    Did you know you were speaking directly to me today? Even though we have never corresponded?

    Recently I have been trying to make a decision about how I would share my experience. I kept feeling I should hold back just a while longer. I wondered if it were fear. I know now I need to have the right balance. What I had been searching for is exactly what you said. I borrow an ancient phrase, “do no harm”.

    The words eluded me. Thank you for your eloquence. Much appreciated.

    Barbara

  2. uzma

    So true, thank you.

  3. I like your attitude of sharing your experience rather than trying to preach. That’s the approach I take at Cheerful Monk and Transforming Stress. We’re all different and have to find what works for us. What does help, I’m convinced, is to tell other people what we’ve tried and what has worked for us. And to encourage them to share their experiences, too.

  4. @ Barbara: Thank you for your kind words. Are you a blogger, or a writer of some kind? I don’t know if I’m thinking too much, but I can feel your eloquence and your big heart through your words.

    @ Uzma: You’re welcome! Thanks for stopping by, as always :)

  5. Jean, thank you :) . Great that you understand where I’m coming from. Didn’t realise you had a blog on stress as well, good stuff! I know where I’ll be spending some time next.

  6. Ian

    You mentioned two stories of charity/compassion, and how one was received as an insult, and the other as genuine compassion.

    Although I can see what you mean, and I can recognize how you may have come to that conclusion, I’m extremely curious to know why you think one would be received as an insult (or perhaps a show of pity) and why the other wouldn’t.

    If I had to guess, I’d imagine the reason why the first show of compassion was received as an insult has much to do with the nature of the problem you had. Anger is a very proud emotion. Having someone disrupt that in an off way could easily only make the problem worse.

    The second situation was less of a matter of pride, though. You were already feeling vulnerable, and wanted someone to help.

    Then again, it could also very well be related to the age at which both events occurred. I assume that you were an adult at the time when the first situation happened. Perhaps by that time you were already jaded due to your age? It does seem as though we tend to be much more open towards compassion when we’re younger.

    But, this is all just my own rambling. What’s your take on the question?

  7. A very good question! It is my fault, I should have explained it a bit better – at the time, I thought the insult was also a kindness. I didn’t know why I felt humiliated at her show of kindness. I thanked her for it, and thought she was a good person, but the whole conversation just left me feeling a bit funny.

    I wasn’t overtly angry at that phase of my life. I had repressed all of it – I didn’t even know I had an anger issue, or maybe I just didn’t acknowledge it. She was one of the people who brought it to my attention.

    I doubt age had to do with it, although that’s a fantastic point as well. I have a few examples of kind people from my adult years, but mainly I was sick of talking about the “anger phase” of my life, and so I used an earlier example.

    Also, it is true – the moment I started writing the compassion series (the draft began many months ago), she was the one that just popped out of my head. And given that I have a poor memory and don’t remember much from my childhood, this was very special.

  8. Hey Albert,

    I found this piece to be very useful for me in my life right now. I am going through some counseling and I was at the point of asking if I should continue. Is it really helping for me to better understand myself. Honestly, yes, and I am more selfless with my wife, family and friends. Thank you.

    On the other hand, I don’t think one comes to completeness until they have been compassionate and served another. It is the action that takes place which has affirmed all the work we have done on ourselves. I still think that we will best reach completeness by serving others and serving ourselves at the same time :)

  9. Hi Miracle, glad I helped. I’m glad that you’re providing feedback, all your feedback helps me to grow. I do think that we can go out and be charitable, but it is a very dangerous path because we could be insulting them - the very next article in this series :D

  10. Albert,
    I loved your discussion of charity. When I was teaching Sunday school it bothered me some when the kids were doing charitable projects. I worried that when they were helping people less fortunate than them there was a tinge of them somehow being superior.

    In your first example the woman stated you were angry, she didn’t ask. That is very intrusive. She was coming from a superior position…she was implying she was more aware than you were. That’s the type of situation I would avoid. In your second example the pregnant woman was sharing…she was acting out of genuine concern. She wasn’t putting herself in a one-up position.

    Thanks.

  11. Even though I am no longer a practicing Christian, I find truth and value in many Bible verses. One that has stuck with me for a very long time is 2 Corinthians 1:4

    “(Praise be to God…)who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves have received from God.”

    As you said, if we are to give comfort and compassion it has to come from comfort we ourselves have received, either from “god” or from others, or from ourselves. I can’t give true comfort to a woman dealing with a miscarriage because I will never understand her pain, but I can share compassion and care with someone dealing with depression because that is part of my personal experience.

    I find myself really struggling with what you are saying about selfishness. If I create sadness in others by pursuing my own happiness, what value am I creating outside of myself? But if I pursue my own happiness in the context of my daily life, and share what I learn with my wife, children and friends, then I am expanding my happiness as I receive it. I also know that the lessons I am learning have true value, because the proof is in my daily successes. I believe there has to be a balance between the selfishness that is necessary for me to pursue happiness, and my obligation to the relationships that enrich my life.

  12. @ Jean: Again, your perspective on things really helps to illustrate what I’m trying to say, thanks. :)

    @ Quint: Woo! You raise a good point, I should have put that in there. Yes I agree you have to strike a balance. The Buddha was an extreme example (probably why he became the Buddha). I was merely referring to taking some time out to find myself. It was easier for me as I have no wife and kids, my friends and family are very understanding, and so I found it easier than others to take time out for myself. I kept all my other commitments, work and study wise. If I had wife and kids I would have kept my commitments to them as well. Brilliant stuff, mate, I’m going to edit my post right now.

    And thank you for that quote as well. I’m really loving the contributions you guys are making to the discussion. Thank you very much.

  13. Hi Albert,

    Two things struck me - one, that offering assistance to others can easily become an act of disempowerment. We cannot presume that anyone needs our teaching or assistance. We cannot even presume that someone else needs assistance at all - who are we to judge whether someone is “angry” or “troubled.” Instead, we can uphold for another that when it is time to embrace a life lesson, the person will seek out the assistance most appropriate for them at that time. If we happen to be there and they turn to us - great! In the meantime, however, our job is to do our own work. If our work inspires someone - wonderful. But that is not its purpose.

    Which brings me to the other part, the “selfishness.” I’m very big on serving ourselves first(whole article here, http://www.empoweredsoul.com/blog/?p=78), so that we may better serve the world. After all, who are we to find ourselves less deserving of qualities that we would certainly want for our family, our friends, and our children?

    In the end, we can only be responsible for our own choices and growth. Therefore, the logical place to start with increasing peace and joy and happiness in this world is with ourselves.

    Thanks for the wonderful article!
    Blessings,
    Andrea

  14. Hey Andrea, thanks for the comment. That is a brilliant point - it really got me thinking. I have been talking a lot about how the bad things in my life have really turned out to be things that made me stronger, but never really thought about the bad things for other people. How do we know that it isn’t making them stronger as well? And by interfering and “rescuing” them, we are preventing them from growing.

    And a very nice article too - I’m starting to think that self-sacrificing tendencies could be a sign of low self-esteem. I can’t be sure though. What do you think?

    Blessings in return :)
    Albert

  15. Albert,

    I agree that when you come from a deeper sense of self-love, you find that you can give and no longer attach to the giving because it cannot be perceived in any way as “sacrifice,” or doing something different or other than what you ARE. The old internal script (sometimes just a whisper) of “what a good boy am I” recedes and eventually dissolves. You just ARE and you just DO…

    When you “dwell in that Kingdom of Heaven Within” the “doing” naturally merges with the “doer” and there is no longer separation between the two parts. I think this is the “purity” that Osho adeptly makes reference to. When love is what you are, love is what you do…

    I believe our natural, internal inclination is toward “Oneness” or joining, (with self and others) yet it’s the unnatural attachment to the external world that pulls us away from the natural.

    Nevertheless, on a more done to earth level, the fact just is: If you aren’t taking care of yourself first, then what good are you going to be for anybody else anyway?

    Great Post Sensei!

    Keep going in and sharing what you find.

    Mike S

  16. Hi Albert,

    The self-sacrificing theme may be related to low self-esteem. I have encountered some people who tell themselves that others will fall apart without their assistance, all in a desire to feel necessary and important. Then there is the need to address our own issues through helping others (wait, I guess that’s low self-esteem, too, right?).

    But what it all boils down to for me is separation. Or rather, the illusion of separation. Seeing ourselves separate from God (because we’d have no trouble serving ourselves if we saw it as serving God), and seeing ourselves separate from others (because we’d recognize that we serve others as we serve ourselves).

    Somehow, I keep coming back to that unsexy Law of Oneness whenever I comment on your blog. :-)

    Blessings,
    Andrea

  17. Indeed, it pays to learn to be kind to yourself first before sharing anything to others. But it’s hard for many to do this because of many influences.

    I enjoyed this post a lot.

  18. @ Mike: Agreed with you on both levels, and you’re displaying so much eloquence. Favourite part of your comment was this: “When love is what you are, love is what you do…”

    @ Love Story: Thank you, good to have you here.

  19. Heh Andrea, the word “unsexy” put your comment right into the spam section, had to go and rescue it :D .

    Thank you for all your insight - it’s really given me a lot of think about. This law of Oneness sounds very similar to some of the core teachings of non-duality. Thank you again.

  20. As a cardiologist, I must face the question of being compassionate every day. For me (and this is only my response) actions and intentions are critical. Even if I’m not in a loving mood and one of my patient’s heart slows to a dangerous level- if I act in a loving manner (move quickly to it remedy the situation) it makes a difference.

    Intention: the desire to help, the desire to stem the tide of disillusionment and lack of joy- I find uplifts my heart. Even if I’m not the perfect human, if I act in a way that is giving this changes “me.”

    I agree that the heart needs to be soft, pliable. A soft heart can be of greater help than a heart that is closed, but it takes time to find the soft heart, to loosen the veils of guilt and sadness that make our hearts rigid. For me- I can’t wait to to give even if my heart isn’t perfect.

    http://www.DrKirkLaman.com (Blog)

  21. Hi Kirk, thank you for adding your supporting story - I love hearing personal stories from my readers. Very inspiring that even the state of your own heart makes a difference in your actions.

  22. Albert,

    Amazing post, very well written. I have often been in a role of trying to pass on to others what I haven’t mastered myself, but I am growing more and more aware of these situations and am starting to avoid them.

    Giving advice to others is very hard, specially when you care about them. I must say I absolutely love the way you tackle this with your writing.

  23. “Yes – a very bold thing to say – but until you have found peace, it is better to keep quiet.”

    Does anyone ever stop searching for peace, though? Is peace a destination so much as a mode of traveling? In that case, is it wrong to share where you are on your particular journey with someone else who may benefit?

    Your writing took such an extreme position, I couldn’t help but question some of it. I think it’s a broad topic open for vast amounts of personal interpretation. What feels right for you may not work for someone else. After all, no two people’s experiences will ever be exactly the same, and yet there’s learning to be had. We’re here on earth with one another to share and learn; to love and grow.

    I get the gist of what you’re saying, but think some things you’ve written pigeon-hole the topic, while other things feel contradictory.

    However, I do applaud you for broaching such a delicate topic. Thanks for taking the time to write and share your thoughts.

  24. I think if we can be conscious of sharing from a kind hearted space, not judging or saying things in a a mean way, in essence being careful not to hurt someone’s heart- then our experiences can be beneficial to people.

    If I’m authentic then my human experience can offer value to someones life. It doesn’t mean they have to agree with me or that what I say is completely relevent to them, but hearts are similar. They go through similar gripping, challenging experiences.

    So I feel comfortable sharing just as we are now in this writing, as an act of compassionate caring.

    http://www.DrKirkLaman.com

  25. @ Vitor: Thank you :) I’m finding the same thing too. As I open my mouth to speak, I ask myself if there is any ego in it, and to take it out, if there is. And quite often, I find nothing left to say.

    @ Megan: Thanks for the comment. Questioning my writing is good, allows me to find the holes in my logic, I know I have a few somewhere.

    Hmm…I’m thinking there’s many different types of peace, or it might be more accurate to say there are many different mountains, each of different heights. The highest peak, I guess, would be perfect peace, which I have not found. Still, I have found a measure of peace within myself, and so I feel comfortable sharing what I’ve learnt, along the way in my emotional mastery series.

    But there are lots of people out there who are giving out advice (exercise until you are too tired to think about it, positive thinking, etc etc). How does any of that work, for long? The problem is, I was giving out the same advice (not on the blog, but to my friends). I was recommending positive thinking to my sister. When I was still not a happy person myself, but I thought it worked. Problem is, it does work - but only for a little while. Also, everyone was recommending it and there are lots of books on the topic, so I thought hey it must work for real! But all it did for me, and quite a lot of others, was repress things. It all came bubbling up, even worse, months later. Luckily it was in the early days, and I wasn’t blogging at the time, or I might have hurt some readers by recommending positive thinking. Now, the emotional mastery series, on the other hand, has removed these pains completely. So while I’m not enlightened or anything, I feel comfortable sharing that.

    Would love to hear which ones you think are contradictory? Thank you once again for the comments, it really makes me think.

  26. @ Kirk: that is a great way of putting it. I think you’ve explained it better than I can. :)

    @ Megan: Went back to edit my comment for clarification, I pressed the “submit comment” button too quickly in a moment of distraction. If you are reading the email version, the full version has more meat on it :)

  27. Sometimes, in giving assistance to others, we are harming them because, in effect, we are telling them that they are too stupid and just not capable of doing it for themselves. That isn’t our intention but it can be the results of doing something for someone that they are perfectly capable of doing for themselves if we would mind our own business.

  28. Good stuff again, Patricia. Agreed. Thanks!

  29. Thanks for this. You make a lot of sense when you encourage people to consider remaining silent about their deconditioning methods until they complete their own healing. At the same time, kindred souls with the best intentions continue to share their ideas without realizing they still have some of their own healing to do. Perhaps this is another wonderful example of where unconditional love, forgiveness and acceptance can be applied. After all, we all learn together during a process of evolution. To be on this planet implies we still have lessons to learn and a purpose to fulfill.

  30. Thanks Liara, I appreciate it.

  31. I am inclined to agree with you Liara and at some points in my life it was invaluable spending time with those who were going through the same search for answers as myself as, although they had not attained inner peace, they understood.

    I wonder, Albert, if inner peace is not often finally achieved because of helping others? Knowledge and understanding on their own may not bring about this state of being, whereas putting it into practice could do.

    I also see a distinction between giving advice and counsel and giving practical help. Many many volunteers do the latter and our world could not do without them, whether they have found their own inner peace or not. I think only in an ideal world could we expect this of them.

  32. I am interested in this article and I agree somewhat with what you say - the blind leading the blind is never ideal. Also, a bit like don’t tell me there is speck in my eye when you have a log in yours.

    I am inclined to agree also with what Sue wrote …

    “I am inclined to agree with you Liara and at some points in my life it was invaluable spending time with those who were going through the same search for answers as myself as, although they had not attained inner peace, they understood.

    I wonder, Albert, if inner peace is not often finally achieved because of helping others? Knowledge and understanding on their own may not bring about this state of being, whereas putting it into practice could do.”

    Having suffered the loss of my baby during pregnancy - I could never have found inner peace without speaking to others whose

    “understanding comes from having trodden the exact same path, having cried the same tears and shouted in the same joy”.

    I didn’t know where to start my journey to inner peace from this grief … a journey I am still on. I made some wonderful friends, we talk heart to heart and walk hand in hand. United in our grief, we journey forwards, sometimes taking a detour, towards an inner peace we can live with.

    I also have been able to help others through my own understanding of losing a baby.I am thankful for this circle of compassion. I achieve a sense of peace in helping others every day.

  33. Wow, thanks very much, both of you for your additional insights and for sharing your own experiences. I don’t know what to say…I guess we all have to find our paths and the balance for each of us might be different. Thanks again.

  34. Thanks for participating in this week’s The Seventh Day blog carnival, which is now live at On the Horizon. Your post is a wonderful addition to the Carnival and I am encouraging my readers to check out both this entry and the prior one.

    A note for your readers: You can submit one post from each of your blogs per week to the Carnival — on any topic. The post must have been originally published during the prior week. So, for instance, anything you publish between January 19 (yesterday) and next Saturday, January 26, 2008 at 6:00 p.m. Pacific time (note the new deadline) is eligible to be included in next Sunday’s edition of the Carnival (Sunday, January 27, 2008).

    I hope you will participate again in the future, Albert!! And I hope to receive some submissions from your readers, as well.

  35. Thank you, Albert…a point I have considered often lately.
    Just one thing, what if–in the greater scheme–the “student” accepting instruction from the unprepared teacher is actually the one providing spiritual charity to “teacher”–allowing them to work out their issues through practice?
    Peace and wonder,
    CG

  36. Hmm…I do agree that teaching or helping someone does add to your own growth…

    Perhaps the danger lies in that incorrect teachings can very often hurt the student (and sometimes the teacher too). Nobody would want to take driving lessons from someone who has only read a book on driving; an accident will probably kill them both. But if they were to get through it without an accident, both would probably be better drivers for the experience ;)

    That’s just what I think, though. What do you think?
    Namaste!

  37. Thank you so much for featuring my post, Hopeful Spirit! I appreciate it.

  38. I found this very helpful. Thanks. (By the way, I am here via Hopeful Spirit.)

  39. Thank you Sandy! Hopeful Spirit is a wonderful blog, and I’m grateful that they’re sending readers my way too.

  40. Pat

    Albert - I’m a first-time visitor to your blog via the Soup to Nuts Blog Carnival at The Gonzo Papers. I like what you say about people parroting what they hear rather than sharing from experiences. I agree. In order to be of service and authentic we need to have an awareness of the place within us we’re sharing from. If it’s not real, it’s better to be quiet - find our peace.

    Thank you. I enjoyed your post and subscribing to your feed. You have a good blog with inspirational messages.

  41. Thank you Pat! I’m happy that you are here, and thanks for subscribing! :D

  42. Patti

    I’m a first time visitor (and now new subscriber!) and I just want to thank you for giving a sensitive voice this subject.

    Years ago, a psychiatrist once suggested that I become “more selfish” - now that may sound harsh to some, but in the context of what I was talking about - basically subjugating myself to others at the expense of my own health and soul, his suggestion was appropriate and I GOT exactly what he meant by it. When I relayed this to a friend though, she was appalled at his suggestion.

    During a very critical time in my life - when I was displaced from my home - moving from place to place for several months and was financially destitute, a well-meaning friend kept telling me to help others. And my response to her was always the same - that I was of no use to anyone until my own house was in order - that I would be putting on a false face and hypocritical in word and deed. I knew that to be true for me in my heart of hearts - at that time, I was an emotional wreck. I finally severed the friendship (and I never regretted that decision) because it got to be a daily mantra of hers and it was further wearing down my already deteriorated spirit.

    Things are better for me now. Thank you so much for this article.

  43. Hey Patti, thanks for subscribing, I appreciate it! I was told the same thing by my counsellor when I saw one a while back - I was running myself ragged pleasing other people, and had essentially become a doormat for everyone to walk over. My feelings and opinions meant nothing, not even to myself, and that was something that had to change in order to develop into maturity.

    Strangely, when you have taken care of yourself, it is easier to take care of others, and the urge comes more naturally. Thank you for stopping by and for the comment!

  1. Live The Power - Jan 18th, 2008

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