54 Comments, Comment or Ping

  1. Great article man. Boundaries are sooo important and needs to be talked about more. Thanks for the good work and supporting me. I’ve revamped and started up my site again..

    Thanks,

    Steve

  2. Albert, thank you for mentioning my blog! :-D I really appreciate it!

    About the post: I am taken aback by just how much of this post resonates with me. For the gross majority of my life, I would give even when I couldn’t..sometimes out of generosity, and sometimes out of an inability to say no - most likey for fear of judgement. It was only last year when I really said no because I had to. The feared disappointment from the person came but I’m still standing. It took a lot for me to understand “you can’t give what you can’t have”.. no matter how much my mother would explain it to me.

    There is a strong need for personal boundaries and this article explains it very well. There’s going to be that time when you need the moments to grow and to learn.
    Thanks again and great piece :)

  3. Boundaries are hugely important I think.

    One comment. The point of emergence from the coccoon is a time of great vulnerability. We need to care for ourselves when we let go of our old defenses.

    A speculation. What happens when we change the metaphor from boundary to membrane. Membranes are semi-permeable and so the attention focuses to discernment and flexibility.

    Is this worth thinking about or just me playing with words?

  4. “No one can make you feel inferior without your permission.”

    So true.

    For someone to hurt you, you have to give them permission to do so internally first.

    This post got me thinking about some stuff Albert, I really enjoyed reading it.

    Keep up the good work! ;)

  5. @ Steve: Good to see you back mate! The site is looking great!

    @ Jemi: You’re welcome :) Keep up the great work. Yes boundaries can be hard and scary sometimes. I’ve dealt well with some types of abuse, as the tram driver example, and there are one or two other types that I still have to work on.

    @ Evan: You’re definitely right. I think certain boundaries need to be flexible and negotiable. Some have to be set in stone - physical violence, betrayal, etc - but everyday things require a membrane just like you said. As always, I appreciate your comments - they really give me a lot to think about.

  6. @ Alex: Thank you mate, I’m really happy to see you here so much. :)

  7. Hi Albert,

    You are right. Over the years, I have been trying to please everybody because I thought it would have made me a Mr Nice Guy.

    I was wrong. I said yes to everyone and I ended up burning out. So somebody came to me and said that I need to learn to say No.

    I was reading Stephen Corey’s ‘7 Habits of Highly Effective People’ and he says in his book that, “Knowing when to say NO comes from a bigger yes from the inside.”

    Enjoyed reading your post.

    Clement..!

  8. Ben

    Had to got through this twice - not because it was hard to read, but on the contrary having got to the end and read about the Tram incident in Melbourne, I could apply this directly back to some of the awful attitudes of some London bus drivers and try to recall similar incidents and how I reacted.

    Reading through a second time helped me really think about all the “yes” answers I’ve done - in my youth I even told two girls I’d be with them because I was too frightened to say no to either of them ! And also got my onto how recent incidents of rude behaviour on buses affected me for a while, as I reacted rather the understood. Barriers always felt like a backward step, but I had never thought about there equal necessity for inward growth.

    Really enjoyed the article, and glad your slowing down a little bit as otherwise I won’t find time to read all the articles of interest to the depth I’d like to ! I’m very happy I’ve found myself a path to spiritual growth I never knew existed or would benefit my happiness, and look forward to keeping the Urban Monk Blog as a part of this path.

  9. @ Clement: Thanks for that! That’s a great quote by Covey - rings very true. I’ll have to find my copy of that book, I bought one ages ago but never got past the first couple of chapters, that guy rambles on and on and on, boring the hell out of me :D

    @ Ben: Thank you as well. I’m glad you found some relevance in the tram driver incident, I wasn’t sure if that was a good example. Not being able to say no to girls - ah, brings back memories. We’ve all been there ;) Thank you again for the kind words, and I’m glad my blog is helping.

  10. Shadowduck

    Wow, Albert - I think that’s one of your best posts yet, so many parts of it struck home with me on so many levels. *round of applause* #8-)

  11. *blush* thanks shadowduck! One day you’ll have to tell me where you got your nickname from ;)

  12. Funny you mentioned trams, I just spent two months in Melbourne going to summer school at University of Melbourne and visiting family. The tram experience was new to me, LA doesn’t have them. I loved Melbourne tremendously. Beautiful city. Can’t wait to go back.

    Good article, I too find myself saying “yes” too often. I realize it is based on fear, ultimately of being rejected. Something to work at. “generosity is an acknowledged virtue.” I like that.

    Tola

  13. Shadowduck

    It’s a long story, but it involved me being bitten by a radioactive duck at a secret government research facility. All other backstory on the International Mallard of Mystery is classified. ;)

  14. Let me take a page from the books of all the teenagers who dominate FaceBook:

    ROFL!

  15. @ Tola: I’m glad you liked Melbourne - it is really a great city, if a bit boring at nights, cos everything is shut down. Thank you for stopping by, I’m happy you’re here (on the blog)!

  16. Albert, my friend, an excellent post, as usual. Now I have a question for you. Do you think boundaries are, in some sense, a defense motivated out of fear? I was listening to a talk by Adyashanti, and that was his contention. He maintained that as we open to the truth of who we are, then there is no need for boundaries because we always live from what is true. We always say no when we mean no and yes when we mean yes.

    I’m not 100% sure I agree, and maybe this is a position “from the mountain top” so to speak, but I would like to hear your views.

  17. Shadowduck

    “…there is no need for boundaries because we always live from what is true. We always say no when we mean no and yes when we mean yes.”

    But surely even then, there are still boundaries? Perhaps not in the form of a shield to protect ourselves, but by saying ‘no’ it seems to me we are still drawing a line which shouldn’t be crossed. Perhaps we’re just not emotionally involved with the boundaries at this stage?

    To take that thought further, what happens when we draw the line but someone crosses it anyway?

  18. I should have added that Adyashanti also says: The Truth is not a doormat for anybody. No just comes out cleanly and easily. Funny that we feel that saying no is somehow a negative thing. No is just no.

    I watched a very conscious person one time stand his ground in front of an attack, utterly unwavering, and willing to do whatever it takes to protect someone. Very cool.

  19. Hey guys - awesome discussion! I think Adya’s right in both senses. Boundaries can definitely come of fear, but what are you afraid of? Simply because you don’t think you’re strong enough to handle it, or you really aren’t strong enough to handle it. And in that case, you might just need some time to get stronger and then you’ll realise you don’t need it anymore. Same thing with the Tram driver - when I was a teen I went through an anti-social phase, I didn’t like going out at all, simply because I would meet some people who call me racist names and so on.

    By staying home, it was a boundary, but probably an unhealthy one - I wasn’t taking time off to heal and go stronger, but just escaping from the world. A healthy boundary is probably where I retreat until I got stronger. The Tram incident was like I said a major milestone - things like that used to bother me a lot. Maybe Adya is speaking, like you said, from the other side - he has done a lot of work.

    Shadowduck is right too - saying no when you mean no, seems like healthy boundaries to me. The classic example of someone with no boundaries is saying yes when they mean no. In fact there are many self help books out there that simply focus on saying No.

    As to when someone crosses your lines anyway, I would say state the consequences in a firm but non-aggressive manner, and prepare to follow it up - it can’t be an idle bluff. Nothing like beating him / her up, but more like I’ll cut off all interactions, I can’t give you what you want, I’ll call the police, etc. And then do it. I’ll cover it more in the follow up :D (I think this will become a 3-4 part series)

  20. Albert, Nice reply. I have to say that with someone who has developed to a sufficient degree, it certainly does look like good personal boundaries. But they are so motivated by something else that it has no defensiveness to it whatsoever. At least, IMHO.

    I look forward to Part 2. :-)

  21. Shadowduck

    Isn’t the internet a wonderful thing? I don’t think there’s any other period of history I could have joined this discussion in (nearly) real-time with two people who’s opinions I have great respect for, when we’re on three different continents! It’s great that you both take the time to respond to comments and talk to your readers (I read Tom’s blog too), I just hope I’m not imposing by asking so many questions!

    As is so often the case with these things, I feel like I’ve nearly grasped the difference between a boundary for self-protection (whether out of fear or not) and the “post-cocoon” boundaries you’re both referring to, albeit in slightly different ways. It’s gradually sinking in that the real difference isn’t so much in what you do (though that will probably change), but in your attitude to and reasons for doing it. Am I on the right lines?

    One of the areas I’m most interested in is the application of spiritual values and ideas to conflict situations. It’s easy to go slowly, breathe and smile when the sun’s shining and Mr Bluebird’s on your shoulder - the challenge (for me at least) is to maintain that attitude when everything’s going wrong and people are… Well, acting how most people do. I’m looking forward to the rest of this series!

  22. Hey guys - I think shadowduck is on the right line with this one. In my next drafted post, for instance, I’m saying that a passive surrender response can be bad - but there are many powerful people who also use it. It’s all in the details, and probably like you said the attitude is the right thing.

    For instance, someone calls me worthless. If I surrender, I keep quiet, and I go home and cry about it. That’s because I secretly agree. If I have healed that wound, and I don’t believe for a single second that I am worthless, it is like someone calling me a midget (I’m six-four). There is no reactivity around my actions, and I can simply choose not to respond, to keep quiet and let them shout at me, knowing that it is their anger or whatever that is blinding them and causing them to see me as a midget. Superficially it might look the same. But inside there is a world of difference.

    Same thing - someone with compassion can still say no. He or she can still refuse requests, walk away from a difficult person, call the police, or whatever, but the difference is whether that reaction comes from fear or from strength. I do believe that this strength comes from the emotional work I’ve been harping on for the entire blog - but most people including myself do not genuinely have such strength, hence the need for solid boundaries to protect themselves until they do.

  23. Very nice post, and very timely for me. I recently set some boundries with someone in my life, and of course I am now getting the selfish comments in return from them. I believe you are right when you say both parties ae right in these matters, but I only think most of the time. There are some occurances where one party does not have the right to think the boundry drawer is self-ish. When the boundries involve personal physical borders it is not self-ish at all.

  24. Hey Albert, you’ve been harping on doing emotional work? Who would have thought?! :-) seriously though, your point is well made. What it seems to really boil down to, for most people, is simply learning to say no and to stand their ground. It can be a useful skill to acquire no matter where the no is coming from.

    So you are 6′4″ and know martial arts, huh? Remind me to say nice things to you from now on! :-)

  25. Thanks Albert, love the blog…good reads.

    This reminds me of when I first started training in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. When I first started out, knowing that I had a lot to prove to others in the class, I would try my best to win every “rolling” session (spar). I had to prove my worth. Interestingly, the better I got, and the more I began to gain confidence in my abilities, the less “effort” I needed to exert. My success was coming from a place of quiet confidence, instead of a burning desire to prove myself.

    Taken within the context of conflicts. There is no greater power, than to say “no” to a fight when you truly have confidence in your abilities to win. It is only when you absolutely trust yourself to win, that it is easy for you to avoid conflicts. Otherwise, you may be avoiding out of fear.

    So when you say “no” is it from an unwavering trust in yourself? - or from a fear of failing - or being harmed?

    Tola

  26. I just love this quote

    No one can make you feel inferior without your permission.
    ~ Eleanor Roosevelt

    How true and so important to remember to value yourself and really believe in yourself, saying no makes such a difference to my life.

    Realising I don’t have to please everyone else before I please/take care of me first so I can take care of others so more effectively

    Thank you

    Suzie

  27. @ NZ Tourism: It is quite a complex issue, isn’t it? Very hard to set solid rules or anything, guidelines are more appropriate perhaps heh. Thank you for the comment.

    @ Tom: I can also do a death touch via email and phone. ;)

    @ Tola: That is a great example! I did a bit of BJJ (never got past white belt though hahaha!) and the most I ever learnt about personal power was from my instructor - like you said, he was a quiet guy, friendly, funny and polite - but man he could rip you into tiny little pieces. Obviously we all can’t spend the 10 years or what ever to get a black belt, but I do think that the confidence can come even without learning to be an ass kicker. Good to meet a fellow ex-roller :D

    @ Suzie: That quote is great isn’t it? I fell in love with it the first time I saw it. Thank you for your perspectives, I’m glad to have you here.

  28. “@Tom: I can also do a death touch via email and phone.”

    Albert, now you’re just bragging. ;-) I think your next post needs to be on inflated egos!! :-D

  29. Wow, so needed this today! I need to set boundaries and take care of ME! LOL!

    Great blog by the way.. ;0)

  30. Thank Angie :D Heh, I can feel your vibrancy and happiness through your comments.

  31. According to me, boundaries are so important. Alsoı, what do you think of this quote?

    “Learning how to set boundaries is a necessary step in learning to be a friend to ourselves. It is our responsibility to take care of ourselves - to protect ourselves when it is necessary. It is impossible to learn to be Loving to ourselves without owning our self - and owning our rights and responsibilities as co-creators of our lives.”

  32. Hmm, not sure. I guess I think caring for ourselves is one way of owning our lives. Being unkind to ourselves would still mean that we own our self - just that we are unkind to it. (I’m not recommending being unkind to ourselves.)

    I guess I think we should invite people to co-create a world where we are kind to each other (including ourselves).

  33. There is an excellent post by Patricia on her struggle to establish healthy boundaries (she distinguishes them from walls which are inflexible) here.

    http://patriciasingleton.blogs.....viors.html

    It is also excellently written.

  34. Heh, I actually liked the quote quite a lot. I think it refers to the fact that we all have to own our right to respect, safety, and equal treatment - and yet it also acknowledges that life is not always fair and we don’t get it as often as we would like (hence the “co-creators”, rather than creators”).

  35. Hi Albert, I’m learning a lot about boundaries from Dr. Henry Cloud in his book, Changes That Heal. Practically the book helps me a lot on understanding what I need to do to set boundary and say NO!

    A quote that gives me my AHA moment from the book…

    Intimacy does not thrive where someone is not free to choose separateness without guilt. ~Dr. Henry Cloud

    Isn’t that so true? Besides intimacy, personal boundaries also helps to understand our limitation and others.

    My full article:
    Let’s say NO!

    Cheers,
    Robert

  36. Thanks Robert, it sounds like a great book given that quote! I’m going to check out your article right now!

  37. Hi Albert,

    long time reader, first time poster. That was a great post and I really like the quote:

    “No one can make you feel inferior without your permission.”

    At work (as a trainer) I quickly learnt the importance of setting boundaries for people from the outset. By failing to set boundaries for a group of people you are responsible for, when you have to correct them - and you will - they will resent you for it. By making it clear from the start and easing into freedom people won’t take you for granted and won’t take it personally when you have to modify their behaviour - because they expect it.

    cheers again,
    Jack

    p.s. I’ve only ever read your site through a reader but now I’ve seen it, it looks hot :p

  38. Hey Jack! Yes that quote really caught my eye and stuck with me for a long time too. It’s great how you mentioned boundaries at the start - I never thought of it that way. Would you mind if I made a mention of that in my follow up to this series?

  39. This is a good article on setting boundaries. There’s always the good side of it and it’s not bad after all.

  40. Thank you Entrepreneurs!

  41. Albert thats awesome you did bjj! I love it. I never got past my white belt either ;) but im training again and one of my long term goals is to be a black belt.

    Tola

  42. Hey Tola :D Go for it man, I know you can get it! All I got after all that time I put in was a half decent triangle choke haha!

  43. Hi Albert,

    Great post, I just had to share it with our readers.

    Kindest,
    Jonathan

  44. Thanks Jonathan, glad you liked it :D

  45. Mark

    Setting boundaries was always a big problem for me. I never knew why I couldn’t say no to people and just chalked it up to me being a “nice guy” always willing to help even if it would hurt me. This post has really helped me to overcome this and I hope it keeps helping folks. Earned yourself another reader btw.

  46. Hey Mark, good to have you here!

  47. I totally agree with what the Authour said “you cannot give what you do not have” & that’s why it’s important for us to set our personal boundaries as we are all human.

    To me, perhaps only God doesn’t need to set His boundaries.

  48. Hey Life Player - thank you for the comment. Good to have you here :D

  49. It is important to set boundaries as noted by the author in the above post. It is just as important to set goals, and follow this to achieve what you want in life. It doesn’t have to be monetary, but personal, and for yourself. This was a long post, but very informative.

    thank you for the knowledge

  50. Nice post. It is always difficult to strike a balance between being open and with maintaining your own personal boundaries. Many grey areas here.

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