Separating the Spiritual Wheat from the Chaff
Editor’s Note: Today’s guest post was written by Tom Stine of TomStine.com.
I live in the heart of the American Midwest, the buckle of the bible belt as is often said of my small city. So it is rare for me to do what I did recently: I went to hear a talk on spirituality. We don’t get much of that in “these here parts,” and so I was interested and intrigued.
As it was Memorial Day weekend, the talk was on the naturalness of death and the inevitability of “making our transition.” The speaker was intriguing if not exactly my cup of tea. She exhorted us with lots of “positive thinking” and even advocated sticking your fingers in your ears when people speak negatively. She and others even sang some “joy songs” to lift our spirits.
But guess what? I loved it nonetheless. I had fun. I had a nice meditation during the not-too-slient meditation, I loved the energy of the group (positive energy, mind you), heard some good reminders about the utter inevitability and naturalness of death, and ran into someone I hadn’t seen in a few years (we had a nice chat afterwards). All in all, it was a great experience I would repeat.
The Spiritual Wheat
While the talk and gathering wasn’t my preferred brand of spiritual teaching (I lean more toward something like Zen or Advaita Vedanta), given where I live, it was ideal for a little bit of spirituality. Much better than the nearest Baptist Church, the one my mother made me go to for 3 years back when I was a teen (she enjoyed drinking and smoking too much to stick with it for too long, thank God).
Whether you visit a church, or pick-up the latest “hot” spiritual book, or go with some friends to hear “this amazing spiritual teacher who knows the secret to life,” you will be faced with some choices. You will need to answer some questions for yourself. Among these questions might be:
- Is this teaching any good?
- Will I benefit from it?
- Is this potentially harmful to me?
The fancy term for this process is Spiritual Discernment. By answering these questions, and possibly others, you will get a sense for how far to dive into a given teaching or book or spiritual teacher. While I was at the talk I attended, this type of process is exactly what I did, albeit rather quickly and partly subconsciously, in determining that I would go again.
How to Do the Threshing
So let’s a take a look at how you can go about getting a sense of the appropriateness of a given book or teaching by looking first at the questions above. Let’s start with “Is this teaching any good?” Immediately, we’ve hit a land mine. How are you supposed to tell if a teaching or book is any good?
The first thing that many of you might try is to do some searching on the Internet. If you do, you will run across an almost endless list of opinions, thoughts, ideas, beliefs, etc, most of which claim to be quite accurate and sensible. But be careful: much of it is garbage.
Unfortunately, as we have all experienced, while the Internet is an incredible medium for learning and discovering new thoughts and ideas, it is also filled with the ravings of anyone who can point a mouse. Including me!
I was recently following some links on one of my favorite personal and spiritual growth programs and discovered a site that was categorizing everything that wasn’t basically government approved psychotherapy as the work of the devil. Psychoanalysis or satan, I think that’s a direct quote. 
You may not know this, but there are multiple websites that offer guru ratings. Yep, you can look-up your favorite guru and see how many stars he was awarded. Did Jesus get 3 stars? The Buddha got 4 stars? Ramana Maharshi edged out Sai Baba? What?! Who says? Go check out my favorite for a few minutes of laughter. Needless to say, you may not find out whether a teaching or teacher is good by searching the Internet.
The one good use of the Internet for spiritual discernment may be in answering the question, “Is this potentially harmful to me?” At least you can cruise around the websites and forums and read the horror stories left there. And there are plenty. You might find these helpful in your search.
The Wisdom of Frodo Baggins
Ultimately, though, all spiritual discernment boils down to spending a few moments looking within. It is an intuitive process more than anything else. You have to be like Frodo Baggins when deciding whether to trust Strider (Aragorn). Frodo said,
You have frightened me several times tonight, but never in the way that servants of the Enemy would, or so I imagine. I think one of his spies would - well, seem fairer and feel fouler, if you understand.
That’s really what it boils down to. When watching Oprah and Eckhart Tolle, does Oprah seem fair but feel foul? Or vice versa? I was intrigued by the first woman that asked a question of Oprah during the first webinar. She identified herself as Catholic, fairly devout, but went on to say that she found herself drawn to a New Earth and what she was reading. It resonated for her. She was benefitting and growing from it. And that is what you are after.
Her experience is similar to mine at the talk. While in some respects it “looked foul,” underneath there was a sense of fairness and wholeness that permeated the experience. I felt that I was being supported in my spirituality and felt a sense of rightness. Had I merely listened to my thoughts and made judgments about it, I would have lost out on a great experience that I might have repeated more often.
My encouragement to you and everyone is to experience what the wide world of spirituality has to offer. Get some books that may or may not be “your cup of tea” and see what they have to say. Buy an anthology of spiritual teachings. Go to a drumming gathering, qigong class, talk or meditation given by the latest local guru. You never know what you might find.
In my view, spirituality is a very rich field for exploration. Personally, I consider it to be the best place to find long lasting happiness and personal growth. When I did a 180 degree turn 18 years ago and jumped on the spiritual path, I had no idea of the changes and transformations that would occur. The opportunities are endless. If you will take a moment to separate the spiritual wheat from the chaff, you might discover a powerful process to help you in your spiritual and personal development.
Tom Stine writes Living from Consciousness, his blog on the practical side of spirituality and awakening. Tom is a writer, life coach and teacher. Feel free to contact him at tomstine.com.
Further Discussion
Editor’s Contribution:
Thank you, Tom, for that piece. Tom is an up and rising star in the spiritual blog world, so if you haven’t been to his site, I heartily endorse it.
I’d also like to add my own two cents to this piece, if I may.
An Open Mind
Please approach everything with an open mind. Don’t discard it simply because of who the teacher is, how he or she looks and talks, or what tradition they come from. As Tom said, even mainstream psychology can be a “tradition” in this sense. Some people will not look at anything besides psychology; some people will not have anything to do with it. Our biases creep in tremendously into anything we do, especially when it comes to sometimes controversial topics like spirituality and religion.
Just an example: whenever we hear that something is from a certain tradition, we might automatically discard it, without even giving it a try, simply because of what we’ve heard about it. Sometimes I read the articles other bloggers have written about my site, or in online forum discussions. Many start their posts like this: “I’m not sure if you guys like Buddhism, but I found this article helpful…” or “I’m not a [insert label here], but I loved this article…”
A couple of years ago, if I was reading a post like that my mind would be so closed that I would not have clicked through to the site. I was closed to anything that smacked of spirituality and religion. Little did I know it would change my life and become my biggest passion.
More Biases
On a more extreme scale, I was recently watching a video of a spiritual teacher on YouTube. Some of the comments under the video displayed how a bias can make us disregard something without even looking at what it is.
He is a fraud, a viewer said. Another asked him why. The reply: He uses his hands to talk. A true master would not fidget so. He also pauses to find the right words. If he was speaking the ultimate truth (or from Source, or whatever he called it, I can’t remember), he wouldn’t do that.
There was nothing about the value of the teaching, or what he is saying. He discarded an entire teaching simply because the speaker talks with his hands. This might sound extreme, but biases like this do creep in without us noticing.
So please, keep an open mind.
Be a Scientist
The next thing is to be critical, as Tom is saying. Take everything for experimentation, and don’t just follow everything blindly. When I first started my quest to be happy, everyone was recommending positive thinking. I followed it faithfully for many months, only to find that it does not work for me. It might for others, but in many ways it actually made my anger and sadness deeper.
On the other hand, it is just as important to actually make an earnest effort. Many of my favourite techniques for self-improvement, such as healing and releasing our emotions, and to a lesser extent cognitive behavioural therapy, I initially discarded. I read through it a few times, played with it for a few minutes, and threw them out. After months of searching, I eventually found these techniques to be amongst the best I’ve uncovered, and upon more experimentation, found their benefits immense.
Finally, thank you for all the emails and the patience in waiting for my next post. I’m nearly out of my work and study load so please bear with me a little more!
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46 Comments , Comment or Ping
Mags | Woo-Woo Wisdom
I love your point about the wisdom of Frodo Baggins :). We are able to tap into the most powerful spiritual resources if we quieten down enough to hear that small still voice that we’ve buried under our preconceived notions of what someone or something should look like.
May 28th, 2008
Andrea Hess|Empowered Soul
It is so unbelievably important for us to discover the path that truly serves our own growth. I actually just ended a relationship with a spiritual teacher because, while his teachings truly served me for a while, I was starting to feel thoroughly miserable doing his brand of spiritual development work. That doesn’t mean he is not a good teacher - he is just not a good teacher for me. I did learn a lot for a while … and then it was time to move on. It can be tough - trusted spiritual teachers are not easy to find, and I truly wanted to learn. I have quite a few friends who still study with him. Aspects of me felt like a “quitter.” But since I moved on, I’ve also recovered a far greater sense of joy and love for the Divine in my life, so I know the choice was completely in alignment with my highest good.
We must observe who we are being while we are working with any spiritual teachings. We can’t expect it all to be easy - the ego resists spiritual growth. Like Tom said - our mind will judge and may try to talk us out of what leads to greater spiritual development.
Blessings,
Andrea
May 29th, 2008
FekketCantenel
It’s really weird how this article shifted rapidly between humorous and insulting. The bit about sticking your fingers in your ears made me laugh, and then I got to the bit with ‘thank God my mother drank and smoked too much to go to church’ and my jaw dropped.
“SEEM FAIRER AND FEEL FOULER!” I’ve loved that quote since I was eight and first saw the cartoon movie.
In your list of religious ceremonies to try, I really think you should have mentioned ‘or just a plain old church’. About 90% of the people I know have never even set foot in one, despite them being ubiquitous here in Arkansas (more of the Bible Belt); I think it has become the new ‘exotic thing nobody ever tries’.
Once the Monk starts writing again, I think he echoes the same thing. He talks about people’s minds being closed to Buddhism and similar practices, but all I ever seem to hear is ‘ew, it involves Christians’. Then again, maybe it’s more noticeable to him because he’s closer to being a Buddhist, while I’m a Christian and even hear it applied to me personally (”We don’t want to hang out with you because you’ll want us to do Bible study or pray about everything or hate gays or something like that.”). In other words, this might be a (shudder) perspective thing.
Here’s one more “guru” solidifying your points about discernment:
Mat 7:15-17: Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
May 29th, 2008
B Smith @ Wealth and Wisdom
Wow, I’ve heard people quote Yoda but never Frodo! The quote is apt, and works well to identify frauds.
He also touched on the point that the information may be dangerous but never explored this. While we need to keep an open mind, we need to be vigilant on what we allow in.
May 29th, 2008
Tom Stine | Living from Consciousness
@Mags Glad you liked Frodo’s wisdom. That line from LotR has stuck with me for years. Says it all, doesn’t it?
@Andrea Your story sounds like a clear example of using discernment. You have to go with an inner intuition, an inner knowing. And now you are much happier. Great!
@FekketCantenel I’m sorry you felt insulted by my comment about going to church. Let me explain further. My mother quit going to the local Baptist church because, in her words, “she got tired of meeting the deacons every week at the liquor store.” It was hypocrisy of that particular church that drove her away. And you can find that in Zen temples, synagogues and the local coffee house.
I know some amazingly wonderful Christians (I live just up the road from you in Missouri, by the way), and I have absolutely nothing against going to church (I do occasionally myself). But my family of origin didn’t fit in well with small town conservative Christianity. It would have been inappropriate for us to continue. In other words, they weren’t my cup of tea. And I was quite thankful that I no longer had to go. While I completely dig Jesus’ teachings, I’ve never found myself drawn to Christianity. But that’s why there are thousands of spiritual paths out there. Thank God for that, eh?
May 29th, 2008
Albert
@ B Smith: Thank you for that comment, and just to explain why Tom didn’t see it when he replied (in case you think he ignored you), for some reason it was falsely identified as spam, and therefore only showed up until after he replied to the rest of the comments
May 29th, 2008
kirsten - circe's kitchen
There’s a book called How to be a Perfect Stranger that gives brief summaries of gatherings/ceremonies of many religions. It’s a good reference source if you’re beginning (or changing) a spiritual path and want some basic background information.
May 29th, 2008
FekketCantenel
Tom said: “But that’s why there are thousands of spiritual paths out there. Thank God for that, eh?” Uh, no, I wouldn’t, but I’m probably making enemies by even saying so, so I’ll leave that there.
On hypocrisy: Other than ‘drink not unto drunkenness’, the Bible is alright with drinking (especially wine). I give people the benefit of the doubt, so I assume the deacons weren’t at the liquor store to buy a few sixpacks and get wasted. Most liquor stores sell wine, cooking liquors, and brandy (useful on cold nights). And how can you have eggnog without rum?
I wouldn’t judge people on meeting them in a liquor store. Then again, that was probably just one example you’re using to hint at the larger picture. In either case, I don’t think it is fair of anyone to reject an entire religion based on one church, but you don’t seem to have (completely).
@Admin: Is it just me, or is that ‘how to make a sai’ trackback a spam?
May 29th, 2008
Barbara
Albert,
As you know, what we hear is one of the most difficult things we have to contend with at either end of the spectrum.
Tom,
You have obviously learned much grace.
Know that this reader is learning to hear better all the time and certainly aspires to grace, especially at times as is demonstrated here when it is not only necessary, but required.
Thank you both for sharing your expansion. It radiates with generosity of spirit.
May 29th, 2008
Tom Stine | Living from Consciousness
@ B Smith You are correct, I didn’t go into the “dangerous” side of the question much. I know that some people do get caught by various teachings and teachers, and that can be problematic at best and dangerous at worst. But truthful, I doubt that I can say much that will keep them safe other than what I said above. If you are open to your inner knowing, that is the best defense you have against the unsavory. Much the same as walking alone at night. Sometimes you just “know”. So far, trusting that inner knowing has been very accurate for me.
@Kirsten That sounds great. It would be a good resource to share with my kid.
@Barbara Thank you. I appreciate your compliment. Far better to be graceful than its opposite. It is so much easier and simpler. I recently got a real taste of bowing at a retreat I went to. I came home bowing to everything and everyone (not in an obvious way, mind you). It has been a great experience. It feels honoring and graceful. Namaste.
May 29th, 2008
Albert
@ FekketCantenel: Good point, I should go delete it now. I don’t really check my trackbacks these days.
@ Barbara: Yeap, I definitely see the truth in that statement
May 29th, 2008
Natural Healer
Discovering the path that truly serves our own growth is really so important. The quote from Frodo is really appreciable.Keep writing up the good info. Take care!
Jun 1st, 2008
Warren Wojnowski | Inspired Abundance
I really enjoyed this article and the comments so far. Another point that pops up for me, and I suppose this relates particularly to Andrea’s comment, is that our teachers tend to have a “shelf life” for any particular student … or at least I find that’s often the case with me.
When first introduced to anyone who is presenting themselves as, or is presented as a guru or expert teacher, I believe we have a tendency to put them on a pedestal.
For me at least, as I become really tuned into the teacher, particularly when I get the opportunity to get to know him or her personally, I also then begin to see he/she is human with flaws like me. And I take them off the pedestal, so to speak.
Ultimately, I find that there’s a point where I almost begin to find myself discounting their newest insight or advice. I’ve come a point where I’ve learned the majority of what I’m going to learn from that particular coach/leader/guru because I’ve adopted an “already listening” vs. a “ready listening” when it comes to them.
This in no way invalidates the value of the teachings nor the teacher, it merely means the student has continued to grow and is now more receptive to a new teacher.
I feel like I’m starting to ramble now and may be losing the thread of where I started … so I’m going to stop.
Jun 1st, 2008
JEMi | Tips for Life, Love, You
As always, I loved this post by Tom. He has a knack for timing as well. In fact, it was only this morning that I realized, as I listened to church talk against spiritual new age stuff - and vice versa, that I would have to do what feels right to me. Im tired of trying to force myself to follow things that never make me feel enlightened with wisdom, light, or whatever youd like to call it.
I personally am a Christian and I would say that my path was led back into that thorugh my foraging thorugh spirituality and wanting more. So I loved this explanation of Spiritual Discernment. Beautiful.
I feel that it is wise to approach things with an open mind. I love to learn and I won’t rob myself of that no matter how negative one group can be to another. Excellent post!
Jun 2nd, 2008
Tom Stine | Living from Consciousness
@Natural Healer I’m glad you liked the Frodo quote. Hobbits are wise folk.
@Warren Teachers do have a shelf life. Ultimately, I think that we will all end up in the same place: having to look within and get our own answers first hand. Teachers are wonderful, sometimes invaluable, but as one teacher I know says, you have to learn to stand on your own two feet. Glad you enjoyed the article.
@JEMi Hey you! I seem to keep having impeccable timing for you, don’t I? Glad you got something good out of it. And I’m glad to hear that you are using your own heart to see how the Christian and NOT Christian messages work for you. I’m always glad to meet people who are willing to question their teachers, be they Christian, Buddhist or Atheist.
Jun 2nd, 2008
Alex Kay
This was great. Not often do I read long posts like this, but it seems like this site (and Tom’s) keep me reading. Thank you for that!
I also wanted to thank for the marvelous content. Great valid points, great value.
Keep it up, both of you
Jun 2nd, 2008
Liara Covert
The variety of posts and ideas in this entry remind us value can be found in every experience and within everyone. Rather than pinpoint what isn’t working on your path or judge what appears to be happening in those of other people, it is life-transforming to heighten your awareness of what you think and your reasons for shifting awareness.
Jun 3rd, 2008
Shun Jian | RichGrad.com
When I first started to practice 7th Path Self-Hypnosis, Mediation and most of the “new-age” stuff, a lot of my existing friends couldn’t relate and I find it hard to explain it to them either.
I guess nowadays, I believe in the saying “Let the results show”…
Jun 3rd, 2008
Albert
Thank you so much Alex, Liara, and Shun Jian!
Jun 4th, 2008
Tom Stine | Living from Consciousness
@Alex Thanks, my friend. I’m glad to know that I keep you engaged!
@Liara Excellent points. Thanks for the comments.
@Shun Jian Yes, the results will show. I’m like you: after a while, I gave up explaining. I would just say “oh, you know, that stuff I do.” Now I’m a little more bold and open because it doesn’t seem to matter much these days. Thanks for the comment.
Jun 4th, 2008
niw
Hi Albert,
Can i post an OT question?
Looking at TomStine blog, i read about Sedona method…
did you ever heard about it, what the differences with CBT?
I’m so confused trying to overtake my 5 years anxiety, and finding out the best way to accomplish it.
Jun 4th, 2008
Albert
hey NIW! I love the Sedona Method. As you can see I proudly put up a banner ad for it. I use it for hours a day and swear by it. I don’t suffer from much anxiety, but it fixed my depression. It is very different from CBT, and in my opinion far more effective. In my blog I talk a lot about emotional work, which is based on Buddhism. The Method supercharges this emotional meditation, and makes it so much more powerful. However, I might be biased, as again I do use it for many hours a day. So I would recommend you try the emotional mastery meditation for a few days, and if it works for you, to check out the Method.
http://www.urbanmonk.net/85/th.....at-simple/
The testimonials for the Method do include many who have overcome anxiety and other disorders, and based on my own experiences with it, I do believe it will work if you put the time in.
Hope that helps. I have never so heartily recommended a system of personal growth and healing like this before, and probably never will.
Albert
Jun 4th, 2008
niw
Albert,
I’ll take your advice. I’m already following the emotional mastery meditation with great improvements in my everyday life (thank you so much). It helped me to change the way i look at my life, to dispute my (wrong) beliefs, and so on. In the end i have to ri-discuss all my life (i believe) and your blog was the start point for me.
Thank you so much, i hope to read you soon.
Jun 5th, 2008
Albert
You’re welcome mate
Jun 5th, 2008
nicklovesbooks
This blog is really quite interesting. I’d also like to share with you this book I finished that might offer you some new insights. It’s called Harmonic Wealth and it’s all about finding harmony in your life in all areas - financial, relational, mental, physical, and spiritual. It has some really good tips about how to engage all five pillars (or areas) of your life, and to learn more about how they complement each other. Rather than dealing with each issue individually, maybe take a look at the bigger picture.
Here’s the link to that book I recommend: harmonicwealth.com/read
KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK!
- A James Ray fan
Jun 5th, 2008
Albert
Thank you Nick!
Jun 5th, 2008
Yvonne
I’ve found this really interesting - both the article and comments, and I like what I see on your blog too, Tom.
I’ve just been on a school trip to a Sikh temple with my daughter’s class and the man who showed the class round asked the children if any of them had been up a nearby hill. Most had. He talked about how from the top you can see other people climbing up, taking many different routes, but all aiming for the same place. Worth remembering, I think, whenever we start thinking our way is the best way, which was of course, his point.
A few years ago we were looking for a swimming club for my daughter. At the first one we visited the teacher told me - at length - that my daughter’s current teachers were poor, and she’d never become a great swimmer if she stayed there, and pointed out her weaknesses. When the teachers at the second club heard we’d been to see the other they said, ‘Oh, yes, that’s a good club too.’ They also told me the current teacher she had was good, and pointed out what my daughter was doing well.
I’m sure you can guess which club she joined, and I found it such a helpful experience in all aspects of life. Like Shun Jian and Tom say, if our way is good for us then it will show, and I would personally avoid any teacher, spiritual or otherwise, who says theirs is the only way, or who tries to make themselves look good by putting someone else down.
One thing I love about this blog is how both Albert and the commentators show deep respect for others’ ways of doing things. Thank you all.
Jun 5th, 2008
Tom Stine | Living from Consciousness
@Yvonne I love your story about the trip to the Sikh temple. What a great analogy for kids. I’m going to have to use that with my kiddo. And I’m with you: nothing drives me away faster than “I’m right, their wrong.” I prefer something a bit more inclusive.
As you do, too. As most people do, to be honest. Glad you enjoyed this article and my site.
Jun 6th, 2008
Barbara
Yvonne,
I’ve noticed your very insightful comments on Albert’s blog many, many times. I did wonder for a long time why you hadn’t joined the blogging community to have your own forum, too. I am pleased now to see you have. And specifically anyone raising children would benefit from the experiences you share on your site.
Your route seems so clear as that ‘path thing’ repeats..
Jun 6th, 2008
Albert
Yvonne, thank you for the compliments. I can’t add much to what Tom and Barbara has said, so I’ll leave it at that
Jun 6th, 2008
Claire
This is a great post! I think you do have to look at things somewhat scientifically too. Although, just because someone teaches spiritual courses at an university doesn’t necessarily mean they are great spiritual teachers. However, things like cognitive therapy, and psychology applications that maybe aren’t even too well-known like the Mandala Assessment Research Instrument have a scientific background that makes them more credible. It may seem odd, for instance, to think that someone could read your psyche by way of mandalas, but it actually has a scientific basis. Those are the types of teachings and tools that I prefer.
Jun 6th, 2008
Tom Stine | Living from Consciousness
@Claire Thank you. Most appreciated. I would tend to agree that one must look at the entire picture of a given person. For instance, I took at course at a local university, taught by a southern Baptist minister, who happened to be a prominent Jesus scholar and who did NOT accept the usual beliefs about Jesus. Very scholarly, very cool. I give him a big plus even though he could have been dismissed offhand. But I still wouldn’t have looked to him as a spiritual teacher per se. And yet, he taught me a lot along the way. Discernment, always discernment.
Jun 6th, 2008
Liara Covert
Each human being in this world is at a particular stage of spiritual development. Particular spiritual teachings resonate with different people at different phases of their lives. As a person grows and expands, he or she may outgrow the way certain ideas are presented. You may relate to certain gurus for a time and then, sense an inner desire to move on. You will progress in your own way. This doesn’t mean you neccesarily become smarter than your teachers. They will continue teaching people who are at different stages of development. As you evolve, you become more discerning. You sense what serves your growth and what stifles it. Just because many people listen to the teachings of a particular person doesn’t mean that path is for you. It takes courage and a willingness to explore yourself in order to discover who you really are. Every person you meet you have invited for reasons that may not be consciously understood at first. You seek out external sources of wisdom to move closer to realizing you have infinite sources of your own.
Jun 14th, 2008
Satheesh, MBBS
Spirituality is just a feeling of specialness of self. It is the result of certain chemical (and electrical) interplay in our brain. Endophins and enkephalins are 2 of such chemicals. Applying electric current to temporfal lobe too can arise your “spirituality”. In short, spirituality is a quality of brain itself. and there is no spirit once the brain is dead! .. I am sorry if this is against your beliefs but they are what i learned as a doctor in the research field. Hope you accept criticisms.
Jun 15th, 2008
Albert
Thank you Liara and Satheesh!
Liara, I’m really glad you’re here sharing your wonderful insights.
Satheesh, no problem. Criticisms are perfectly fine, especially if they are as politely worded as yours. It’s very interesting what you describe - although what exactly is “spirituality” in terms of a feeling? Are you describing a sense of bliss, happiness, or whatever? I’m not defending or attacking, I’m just curious that a feeling can be lumped into a whole pursuit that includes many different aspects. I love the interplay of science and older traditions, and would love to discuss this more if you are willing.
Jun 15th, 2008
Tom Stine | Living from Consciousness
@Liara I liked what you said about “as you evolve, you become more discerning.” I would agree with that for certain. Almost like your internal compass grows with you. Or maybe, as I might put it, who you are shines through more clearly.
Jun 15th, 2008
Tom Stine | Living from Consciousness
@Satheesh I will second Albert, I enjoy hearing opposing views. The most interesting thing to me of most explanations of spirituality such as yours is the point of view that makes science sound quite “objective” and spirituality sound quite “subjective”. As such, it becomes easy to accept a reductionist stance and point out that science “knows” what spirituality is.
My main objection is simply the fact that science is just as subjective as everything else in life. We are always faced with the products of our experience. You have experiences as a research scientist. I have experiences as a “spiritual person.” Whose experience is more objective? Impossible to say.
I know during certain neurosurgical procedures that electrodes have been used to stimulate areas of the brain, including the temporal lobe. While these electrical stimulations can elicit states of “euphoria” or “bliss”, most people that have spent considerable time in “spiritual activities” will tell you that a euphoric state is not what is meant by a spiritual state or experience. If euphoria is what you want, there are any number of drugs that can provide it, quickly and easily. No need to meditate for hours at a time.
The spiritual experience that you seem to elude to is far, far more than the neurochemical and neuroelectrical activity of the nervous system. How do I know? Well, in point of fact, I don’t. But neither does any scientist on the planet. We all have our hypotheses and guesses.
But what I have experienced I feel comfortable in saying is beyond the capability of science to produce via my brain. I’m not volunteering for electrodes, but I do have some experience (cough, cough, wink, wink) in my college days with altering my neurochemical make-up. Not even close. And I doubt a burr hole in my cranium above my temporal lobe will convince me otherwise.
Thanks for expressing an alternate opinion about how all this stuff works. Always good to read and discuss alternate hypotheses.
Jun 15th, 2008
Satheesh, MBBS
I am so happy because Tom Stine and Albert has replied elaborately and polietely to my opposing views. I too is a “spirital person” and I very much respect your personal experiences. I was trying to clarify that, any thing has a mechanism behind it, and about the feeling of spirituality and eternity, some scientific basis has already got invented (that was what I was telling about temporal cortex and all).
The personal feeling of spirituality is so great, but I think, it can create a wrong impression in our brain (or mind ,as you call it) that it is from God, it is everliving etc..I was trying to clarify that chance for the existance of an immortal spirit is too less.
Jun 15th, 2008
Albert
Guys, this is a great discussion. I’ve been thinking about it some more - what exactly is spirituality? It is no secret that me and most of the other seekers I know started this journey because we just wanted a way to feel better, a way to go about being happy in this sometimes senseless and cruel world.
As Tom said, there are ways to go about just being happy, that have nothing to do with spirituality. And yet there are other aspects that I would consider a part of being a spiritual person - perhaps the better term would be a mature person. How would we handle someone who was abusive and rude? How would we go about making a positive difference in the world?
As such, I can speak for myself when I say that developing happiness via techniques such as finding (true, not romantic) love / compassion, and letting go of negative emotions and habits, will not only impact ourselves positively, but those around us too. Many forms of spirituality also recommend forms of right action, right speech, right livelihood, and so on, that go beyond the pursuit of just unhappiness.
Thanks for the great discussion, Satheesh. And yes I agree completely - it is perhaps a pitfall of many seekers that they are too ready to attribute any sense of happiness or whatever to an external source when there is simply something more mundane behind it. Thank you again for sparking this conversation and for your continued politeness and basic awesomeness
Jun 15th, 2008
Kitty
I apologize in advance for making this critical comment. I do not come from an antagonistic place; I believe your work is important, and it is for this reason and this reason only that I make this comment. But here is my complaint: nowhere in this post is “spirituality” defined, and thus I am left with the sense that spirituality is about what feels good to the author. If that’s what you mean, that’s fine, but it ought to be clearly defined at the beginning of the article so that I know what all of your succeeding references allude to. Since there is no definition, and no link to a definition, I can only guess what it is you’re after when you go searching for “spiritual wheat.” More importantly, I have only my own interpretation when I go on that same search. It’s frustrating to me that you can write about such an important topic, and actually describe a process to clarify what’s meaningful, without clearly defining your parameters of what that meaning is.
Unfortunately, you are not alone. This lack of clear definition of what the word “spirituality” means is pervasive in spiritual literature, and it is a crucial omission indeed. Because “spirituality” is such an emotionally charged word and carries such an immense range of definitions, it is important for any writer to define exactly what he means when he writes about it. Anything less has little meaning other than the subjective interpretations of the individual reader, which perhaps on one level might be motivational, but without a clear delineation of what you believe that motivation is for, how is that helpful?
Again I apologize for the critical comment, but I think this is really, really important and because so many people read this site, it’s important for you to define such a big and weighty topic. Anything less is a disservice to your audience.
Kitty
Jun 19th, 2008
Albert
Hey Kitty. No need to apologise at all! Criticisms are very welcome, the only comments that get deleted are rude ones, and yours is the furthest thing from rude.
Now, this is not my article, and I’m sure Tom will be back to weigh in soon (I know he’s going on a retreat tomorrow, so it might be a while), but in the meantime I’d just like to thank you for the comment and add my opinion, whatever it is worth.
Your topic’s interesting to me as well, because I just realised don’t fully have a proper definition of spirituality myself. Off the top of my head, I would say it’s a combination of factors - this definition will probably change once I get a few hours of sleep and have had time to think about it properly, but here goes: The meaning of life. Why we suffer. What we can do about it. How we can develop unconditional love and compassion for others. Understanding ourselves in all possible ways (beyond the mind and body - although I don’t know about the existence of a soul). A set of guidelines for living a moral life (do no harm, forgiveness, etc).
My favourite philosophy / form of spirituality is Buddhism (I hesitate to call it a religion), and the Buddha has been quoted as saying that all he teaches is suffering and how to end it. In my opinion it covers all the aspects I’ve mentioned above, although it does not sound like it at first glance. Ending your own suffering (beyond the whole temporary happiness we get from material objects) requires knowing what life is, and once we get there, compassion and love is a natural result. It is also common for a spiritual seeker to say that they started their search simply because they were sick of being unhappy.
So while some has criticised the Buddhist teachings as essentially selfish, it really isn’t. I do believe a person who practices spirituality and raises her/his consciousness will naturally develop compassion for others - it cannot be otherwise. This would also apply to Tom’s apparent argument (again, I can’t speak for him, I’m just addressing your concerns) towards helping yourself first - because everything else truly does flow from that. Forced compassion, practiced love, isn’t really love at all. It has to come naturally. I myself am a big proponent of helping yourself first, so I can sort of see where he is coming from, if indeed that is his intention.
Phew, that was longer than I expected. I really want to thank you for sparking this train of thought, and would love to continue this discussion if you want.
Hope my comment made some sense, I haven’t slept in days.
*edited for clarification*
Jun 19th, 2008
Tom Stine | Living from Consciousness
Hi Kitty,
You raise an interesting question. As a matter of fact, I answered the question “What is Spirituality?” on my blog a few months ago. Honestly, I just now re-read that article, and I think it quite adequately answers the question from my perspective. I invite you to read it. It is too long to repeat here.
I purposely did not include a definition of spirituality in the above article for a very simple reason: the question demands its own article. A discussion of it would have weighed down the above because the definition is not really necessary to get the purpose of this article, in my opinion. If one had in their mind a definition that looked more like “religion” that would have been close enough for them to have gotten a lot out of the article. The same holds true if they had thought “philosophy” instead. Or “that God stuff” would have worked, too.
In terms of this article, though, I think you could safely assume that spirituality meant “those teachings and activities that have to do with the spirit, the non-material.” That would pretty much be equivalent to what you would find in a dictionary. Of course, that begs the question, “what is spirit?” Again, now we are back to a separate article.
Thanks for the comment! I hope my response, and Albert’s, are helpful.
Jun 19th, 2008
TigerTom
Forget ’spirituality’; that can include voodoo, shamanism and bacchanalian orgies i.e. you can be led astray, wasting years of your life at the feet of a charismatic but false prophet. Simple rule: Anything that comes out of California or the Netherlands is suspect.
I recommend traditional Catholicism and the Tridentine Mass. Leave your egotism at the door, kneel and be silent.
This sums it up nicely for me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGDndcxH-O4
Jun 26th, 2008
Msn Avatarları
Know that this reader is learning to hear better all the time and certainly aspires to grace, especially at times as is demonstrated here when it is not only necessary, but required.
Jul 11th, 2008
Tom Stine | Living from Consciousness
@Msn Avatarlari There can never be too much grace.
It is always so much more fun. Glad to have your comment.
Jul 12th, 2008
www.msnli.com
know some amazingly wonderful Christians (I live just up the road from you in Missouri, by the way), and I have absolutely nothing against going to church (I do occasionally myself). But my family of origin didn’t fit in well with small town conservative Christianity. It would have been inappropriate for us to continue. In other words, they weren’t my cup of tea. And I was quite thankful that I no longer had to go. While I completely dig Jesus’ teachings, I’ve never found myself drawn to Christianity. But that’s why there are thousands of spiritual paths out there. Thank God for that, eh?
Aug 6th, 2008
Reply to “ Separating the Spiritual Wheat from the Chaff ”
DoFollow. Due to all the spammers, comments are now only Dofollow after a secret number of entries.