Well, okay. Actually I lied a little. This post isn’t 100% about reader discussion; I wanted some space to have a little rant as well. I know I’m interrupting my Behavioral Mastery series (again), sorry.
Secondly, I wanted to get some reader discussion going. Comments have dropped tremendously in the past few weeks. Most posts get 40-50 comments, and the past three have been stuck below 20. I’m hoping a reader discussion post will get people back into the swing of things again.
So, back to the topic – spirituality and money. A few months ago, I was reading Steve Pavlina’s article on Blogging for Money. He has a section in it warning about the pitfalls of starting a blog for money – including meeting people he calls financial cynics. In essence, they are people who feel you have “done them serious personal harm by deciding to get paid for your work instead of bending over backwards to serve their needs for free.”
I remember thinking – Wow, I hope that never happens to me. And two days later, it did. It stunned me for a few seconds. A reader had come across my blog, and was furious at me for committing the mortal sin of having Google advertisements. He left a whole series of colorfully abusive comments on random posts. I didn’t know what he was angry about, for it was just a stream of vulgarities, until I saw his email follow-up.
If you are so good, he said, why don’t you reject the money from Google? He finished off his vulgarities by calling me a pedophile priest (probably a play on the Urban Monk nickname) who preaches to the church straight after molesting a child.
Admit it, he taunted, you’re out to make money and not to help others. Why don’t you tell everyone how much you make from Google, huh? You jerk! You don’t care about your readers! You jerk!
This is probably a nasty thing to say, but I couldn’t stop laughing for a few minutes. Then I replied to let him know that – Yes, I do want to make money from my blog, and no, it is not a secret. It has been in my about page since the first day, and my mission statement when I wrote it, and I don’t know how many articles. And why can’t I care for my readers and desire to help, while getting paid for it? I was still providing a free service.
(If anyone is curious, I make about *edited out – someone told me I’m not supposed to reveal it according to the Google terms of service* from Google – I use it to pay for all the soft drinks I consume while blogging.)
Steve Pavlina is solidly in the personal development niche. I don’t remember him ever talking about himself as a spiritual person (conscious, yes, but not spiritual). And yet it’s interesting that he would attract comments like these. Is it something that is limited to the service-type niches (like psychology, spirituality and personal development)? Do other blogs – movies, news, politics, or photography, for instance – attract emails like this?
But for argument’s sake, let’s restrict this to spirituality. I had forgotten about this incident until I began doing some research on a few spiritual teachers I had begun reading. I was on websites, blogs, youtube videos, online forums, and then I noticed one very interesting trend. Each teacher will have their critics (that is almost a given, anyone in the public eye will), but what caught my eye about these critics was different. Inevitably, critics will resort not to attacking their teachings, but the fact these people are actually charging for their books and seminars! Others even attack the shirt / dress they are wearing, or the beautiful necklace they have got on – anything that reeks of luxury.
One comment summed it up perfectly, if a bit strongly (I can’t remember the exact words): “The day I believe they are a true spiritual teacher is the day they give up their clothes, houses, money – and start wearing robes and begging for alms. That is the day I will believe what they have to say. Until then, they are frauds.”
At this point, before I contaminate this article with my opinion, I would like to ask for readers to share theirs. What do you think? Are they right? Should a true spiritual person be poor? Should a person who truly cares give everything for free? Is it wrong for a teacher to live in a comfortable house and wear nice clothes? Is it wrong for a blog (especially in personal development or spirituality) to have advertisements?
I think such attacks are absurd on so many levels. First of all, while I am no historian or cultural specialist, I am quite certain the whole “monk begging for alms” thing is cultural and time-specific. Some cultures and time periods support such practices whole-heartedly, and some don’t. Would the spiritual aspirant who lives off the kindness of strangers, be feasible in western society, in this day and age?
I remember reading the autobiography of a respected Buddhist teacher (I forgot who, though, it was years ago), who went to the west from an Asian country, tried it and failed. He didn’t even get enough coins for his daily food, and had to give up. And this was a respected teacher. What would happen to the “normal” aspirant?
Secondly, some traditions do preach the value of giving up worldly possessions – but the teachers I was investigating do not. The closest they have come to such a comment is – you don’t need money to be happy. They’ve never said – don’t earn money; don’t live comfortably. All they’ve said is happiness comes from the inside, regardless of your external conditions.
Thirdly, what is wrong with providing a service and getting paid for it? (Let’s forget fraudulent teachers for a second).Would a patient get angry at his doctor for charging for a consultation? Would a reader get angry at a having to pay for a newspaper before reading it? Hospitals cost money to maintain. Medicines cost money. Newspapers cost money to print. Journalists cost money to hire. Even if the person is not making a profit – there are unavoidable costs associated with almost every activity or service.
(As a side note, the reader who called me a pedophile priest made me curious enough to research how priests were financially remunerated. According to a few websites, they don’t get paid for profit, but they do get money to pay the bills and provide for their families. Someone correct me if I’m wrong.)
At this point let me switch from spiritual teachers back to the blogging world (not my blog, the entire blogging world in general). The way I see it, bloggers – regardless of topic – are essentially saying:
“Hey everyone, I found great recipes for coffee and cake, and I want you all to have some. I don’t want to charge you to come in, sit on my property, eat my cake, and drink my coffee. And yet I have bills to pay, for I am not Donald Trump, and my time is limited. What can I do? I know, I’ll provide everything for free anyway, and cover the costs by getting advertisers to put their posters on the wall.”
Some get big enough to quit their day job. Others don’t. But either way, can you imagine going into a coffee shop like that, indulging in the free refreshments, and then abusing the shop owner for wearing a “Sponsored by Google” t-shirt? As Steve Pavlina said, the very model of blogging seems to have given people the mindset of “something for nothing” – to the point they see it as an outrage to even get a sponsored something for nothing.
I would love to hear your comments on this topic. (And please note that if this sounds like I’m complaining, I’m not. That email I received still makes me chuckle.)
I haven’t been really active in the blog world recently so I don’t have many new blogs to share. If you have one you think my readers would like please let me know (this is not a guarantee I will feature you). A link to me would be appreciated too 
.
In the meantime, I’d like to say a hearty thanks to the sponsors who bought a link and especially a banner ad recently. Thanks for allowing me to present my “coffee and cake” to my readers. You can see them in the Featured Sites and the square banners in the sidebar.
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I am not a fan of advertisements. On many webpages, they are flashing, animated, garish distractions that infringe upon the overall design of the site. News sites are particularly horrible in this regard.
There are two cases that come to mind that my opinion is rather different: Ads on webcomic sites for other webcomics, and text only ads.
I’ve found graphic banners and sidebars on webcomic pages leading to other webcomics very useful. I’ve run across a number of enjoyable stories by following an interesting static banner graphic or sidebar.
Text only ads such as Google AdSense may not nearly be as helpful as the above case, but they do have two positive properties. The first of course is that they’re easy to ignore. They don’t flash, animate, pulse or anything that would drive me into a fit as a website consumer and designer. Secondly, the selective algorithm behind the AdSense service can provide opportunities for unintentional humor. A regular user of Google Mail (with any sense of humor) would notice this after a while.
As a website designer and maintainer, I’ve had a policy of paying for my web presence out of my own pocket. For a while I even maintained my own webserver out of my apartment. Maintaining a site, however, does cost money. Often it can be frustrating when an unexpected medical bill or car repair pinches your finances at the same time the hosting fees are due. I’ve swallowed the costs for the most part because my site is relatively unknown, and I don’t have much in the way of content to provide for the reader.
I’ve often wondered what would happen if I managed to gain an audience. Would I break my vow of “no ads, no how”? I would like to say that I wouldn’t, but you cannot deny the economics: Visitors require bandwidth to serve content. Bandwidth costs money. Content costs time to produce. Thus, it becomes exactly as you describe, you’re providing a service and would like something in return.
Ads are one such way to pay for that investment of time and money. A lot of people don’t realize how little money web ads actually produce for an independently run site. Two or three dollars a day isn’t exactly an onslaught of cash (although, that much would be miraculous if it were my site ^_^ ). It does, however pay for hosting fees, bandwidth, and provide a little extra to support a modest soda habit. As long as one doesn’t become obsessed with “making a living” off of one’s site, I can hardly cry foul for a few text ads.
Interesting post!
I feel that many who rant about spiritual people receiving money for their services are confused about what money is and confused about what spirituality is…
In my Faith, part of our Scriptures say, “It is enjoined upon every one of you to engage in some form of occupation, such as crafts, trades and the like. We have graciously exalted your engagement in such work to the rank of worship unto God, the True One.” —Baha’u'llah
Also interesting that just last night I counseled a member of my Faith in her concern about making money through offering service to the Faith. I don’t know what service, since she’s keeping that to herself right now, but her blog is interesting for its sincerity and illumination: http://verdanta.wordpress.com/
I feel chuckling is the proper spiritual attitude toward such poor souls who attack from a position of false spirituality…
~ Alex from Our Evolution
@ Rash Feather: I agree with the flashing ads. They are horrible. My current design was the result of much head scratching and manipulating. It’s not the best looking one, but about as balanced as I can get it, looking good vs. value for advertisers. I appreciate your support – yes, in a perfect world I wouldn’t have any ads at all
@ Alex: Definitely. To be honest, I don’t even have a definition of spirituality. To me, it’s the pursuit of being happy regardless of what is happening – or the end of suffering. If, in the pursuit of that comes love and compassion for all, then so be it
. Would be interested in hearing your definition of spirituality. Thank you for your comment, and especially for that quote, it’s a good one!
My definition of spirituality?
Living in the Light.
Living in the world but not being of it.
Communing with the ineffable.
Acting from Faith with Love…
~ Alex from Our Evolution
Great topic, Albert. I’ll be brief and blunt: whenever you get those emails, just keep laughing. Any time we have an attachment or an aversion to any part of life, we are caught on the wheel of samsara. The Buddha would say as much today as he said 2500 years ago. Rejecting money, not to mention people, because of a Hollywood influenced conception of what a spiritual person is like is, well, pointless.
Hey, by the way, wasn’t it on my blog that the person left the comment about Eckhart Tolle being a sham because he was wearing a nice, silk shirt on Oprah? LOL
If a person is giving a service and charging so be it. If it helps you or someone even better. The way you’re funding your blog its not harming anyone so…why is it so important to others to stop you. Comfort is something we all want. It’s a great thing to have! So go make yourself comfortable.
Jesus AKA Emanuel didn’t ask for donations but he was rich… did anyone forget? H
Was his message changed by the amount of money he had?
No, the universe provides for those who provide for themselves.
I have to wonder if some of the hostility comes from the confusion of spirituality with the Law of Attraction. I have to admit that I wonder myself: if Larry Crane and Rhonda Byrne can manifest whatever they want at will, and the universe can supply infinite abundance, why do they have to charge money from others? It seems petty.
Of course, that argument doesn’t apply to most teachers and bloggers. However, I think many people still have this idea that someone truly spiritual should be able to get the universe to provide for them.
And maybe, in turn, people have the idea that if they can only make spiritual progress, then *they* won’t have to make a living anymore. In which case, the fact that existing spiritual people still try to earn money might be awfully disillusioning. Maybe that’s the real reason for the abuse.
Lol
I have to be honest dude I laughed too when I read the part about what this guy said. If there was anyone who truly needed your help and wisdom it is this guy but sadly he is too blinded by the tiny adverts on the site to realise! lol
I’ve personally experimented with ads and such in the past but gave up since I didnt make much money.
My thoughts on this are that..
1) Society as a whole (whether you agree with it or not) is geared up to people owning stuff, houses, cars, TV, etc and these things need paying for. If you spend a considerable about of your day (and night) wirting for your blog and promoting it then you have to find the money to pay for all the things in your life some how. Personally my blog doesn’t take up loads of my time and I can still put in a 40 hr week to pay the bills. But if someone offered me the chance to make my job my blog, would I take it? Probably. Blogs, such as our, are a passion and we’d gladly spend all of our time writing and developing them so why not generate revenue from it via advertising in order to pay your bills so that you can devote all of your time to your passion.
2)The saying is true that money doesn’t make you happy. It doesnt plan and simple. But you have never stated any where on your site that it does and I must have missed the post about how you only write your blog for the money which would in turn make you incredibly happy. Maybe this guy would be happier if you changed you strap line to…
“Personal Development for BLISS, SUCCESS and LOVE (and make me loads of money to make me happy, cos we all know that money makes you happy)”
But maybe he’d then complain that your strap line was too long!
Dude your doing amazing job. You write with passion and wisdom and there are 2886 of us, as well as many more, who believe that and will continue to read your work and be in awe of you whether you had advertisements on your site or not!
Yours
someone who sees the wisdom in your work and who isnt blinded by adverts.
“…Blessed are the poor in heart”. Hey, am not here to promote the sayings of any particular spiritual saint. The very discussion “spirituality and money” seems a little uncomfortable. There is no direct connection between the two at all, for they are entities from two dimensions that do not culminate directly at any point. It is man, his existance, that makes these two dimensions come together. He stands with the “kingdom of the spirit” within him and the “kingdom of the money” around him. And it is here, that the esoteric, exoteric, and if i may humbly coin a word, the ‘mesoteric’ elements combine to form the reality we know.
We are so much hyped about “anti-materialism” confusing that to be a sign of spirituality! It is indeed a sign of attachment to the material world too! “Whaaat!” you say. Read on.
Firstly, let’s eliminate ‘materialism’ from this discussion. Being a “materialist” is really not a sign of true spirituality, an axiom which needs no further discussion. And again, we should be clear about the distinction between “spirituality” and “spiritualism – spiritual materialism!” as ‘Hazratji’ (Hazratji? contact the author of the comment for answers) has defined. A soul which is engrossed in the chase of material achievements, be it money, fame or any form of ego-satiation can never achieve the state of a true seeker, let alone someone who has sought and is helping other seekers!
Now, let’s come to the “anti-materialistic” part. Well, when we talk about “anti-materialism”, it denotes a state of attachment to materialism too!!! How? Well, just ponder over this – If you were not bothered about something would you be yelling your guts out defaming it. Definitely no! So if you were creating a hype about something, it means that it is there… resident in your heart. Whether you love or hate that thing is something else. What we are talking about is the presence of it. I mean, if you had risen above the world, you would not be bothered about the world at all, you would be neutral. You would not be screaming about how crude and bad it is. How could you love or hate something, which is not in your heart at all! So talking specifically about money… whether you are getting money or not should not affect you at all. It is the state of ‘non-materialism’ that is the actual state of the “spiritually enlightened” or even of the true “traveler”. If he is being “provided” (mind you, “provided” not “demanding”, for that would put him in the “materialistic” category) with money then it, in no way, deprives him of his spirituality. “Non-provision” of the same, should not bother him at all.
In a nut-shell, what I’m saying is, “money or no-money?”, as long as the conclusion of this question does not affect him at all he is a true “spiritual traveler”. A “materialist” and an “anti-materialist”, both are residents of the Sphere of Matter, for you can be one of these only if you have ‘material’ in your heart. A “Non-materialist” resides in the kingdom of the spirit.
Obaid Malik
Good post and comments. The whole thing about money is quite fascinating. Most of us are bombarded with negative associations around money and they get mixed in with ideas about non-attachment and poverty vows. It’s an especially ripe area for drama when we are constantly shown what we don’t have with ads.
But suffering does not create art and poverty does not lead to spirituality. Creativity moves from openness which may occur when someone suffers enough to let go. And poverty is a practice some take to learn non-attachment. But both of them have practices that are easier and more suitable for most of us. We tend to think of the saints of India as all living as monks. But the majority of the great books of the Vedas were written by householders. It is only this modern idea that suffering is the way to God and creativity that confuses the issue.
I’ve read several good books that have us stop and really look at our attitudes towards money. Attitudes that often get in the way of our being effective with it. Lynne Twists the Soul of Money is very good. Also Busting Loose from the Money Game.
“The biggest, most unquestioned answer of our culture is our relationship with money. It is there that we keep alive–at a high cost–the flame and mythology of scarcity.”
– Lynne Twist, author of the unexpected “Soul of Money”
I give a brief summary here:
http://in2deep.wordpress.com/2.....fficiency/
Not only do we grow up with all these mixed messages about $, but we don’t even understand how it works. This is a good article on that:
http://commonground.ca/iss/195/cg195_money.shtml
Because of the nature of the Internet, people sometimes have the automatic idea that it should be free or I can take whatever is there. It’s a remarkable medium but it does take time and money to keep it up. At some point, some people like Rashfeather simply stop and we all loose. The ad model is certainly better than pay per view, something some like Microsoft are actively developing.
I think some of the reaction to ads is because of how abusive they have been -noisy, pop-ups, and so on. Subtle optional adds like you have are no issue. Moderation is the key in all things. I’ve opted not to bother as the money isn’t worth the bother.
In the end though, its all just ego story. People are angry and rather than stopping to see what its about, they look for things to make wrong to make themselves right. And that’s about as nonspiritual as you can get. It has nothing to do with money or spirit and everything to do with the nature of suffering.
Yes, Interesting post indeed. Something to think about for all bloggers with a conciousness…
But I think what needs to be said has already been so. There is nothing wrong with money. There is something wrong with greed – but that’s a totally other thing. If you gave up your authority to push on products for profit (that you didn’t believe in), then yes, you would be a “fraud”.
But you’re not. And not many are. Because they don’t even gain the readership needed to pull something like that off anyway.
So please! Keep making $3 a day for a softdrink (or two). I actually just donated $10 so you can have some more (and write another post)
Quick summary: Money is good. Greed is bad. Posting is good.
(by the way, that email you received sounds hilarious! A pedophile priest? hahaha.)
Love!
Alex
I have mixed feeling about advertising, but more because the pay off is pathetic unless you have thousands of subscribers rather than for any moral reasons.
I can take up to 6 hours to do a blog so trying to get something back to pay for my time seems reasonable to me. Having said that, I blog for fun and to put my ideas ‘out there’ and I’m not looking to make a living from it. If I do make a few bucks, great it’s a bonus, if not it’s no big deal.
Keep smiling Albert and doing what feels right to you, that’s all any of us can do mate
This is certainly an interesting discussion,
You want money, give more values, that’s always the equation.. sometimes luck does come in, but often it relates more with the value you bring, the sweetness of your “coffee and cake”. When you have worked for a longer time, you will gain more traffic and subscribers, its just normal when we are giving so much values, we give opportunity for people to give back.
Even more, if you can see it, giving is a challenge that we can give to our readers. We’re preaching kindness so it’s just normal when we challenge them to give as well. And if you can’t even give to the person giving you something, how can you even give to those who don’t.
My 2-cents,
Robert
Great stuff everyone! Thanks a lot. Really awesome stuff in here, I appreciate all the great comments, and the support, especially!
@Alex: Beautiful.
@Tom: Yea that was where I saw the shirt comment! Hah! And last night someone was knocking Byron Katie for her necklace.
@Ori: Thank you
@ Jim: I think that is a huge part of it. I never thought of it that way. Great stuff!! There seems to be two schools of thought, now that I think about it. The spiritually advanced are either A)the most normal of us all (I’ve met a few, like Sailor Bob Adamson, and he fits in this category). B) some super-powered person.
@Ben: Thank you so much for the support, mate. I agree with what you’re saying, (of course, since you’re supporting me hahaha!). But in general, yes, blogging is a passion for most people – the financial payoff is shocking. Thanks again.
@Obaid: Truly profound stuff. I truly can’t think of anything to add.
@Davidya: Good to have you here! Been following you secretly around Tom’s blog and your own. Again, I can’t think of anything to add, but thank you for the comment. I’m gonna digest those articles now.
@ Alex: Thanks for buying me a drink mate! Appreciate it. Yes, emails like these, I wonder if sometimes they’re Eddie Murphy or some other comedic genius in disguise…
@ Tim: Heya my friend! Thanks for the support.
@ Robert: Good stuff as well. Thank you for the support. Definitely, we’re just making it an optional thing, and not really shoving it in their face or annoying them, so I think it’s an acceptable compromise.
I would have loved it if the blogger to whom the nasty comment was directed replied with, “The day I believe you a true spiritual learner is the day you give up your clothes, home, and money and start begging for alms. That is the day I will believe you are ready to learn. Until then, I will assume you are an insecure, self-righteous poser. As a courtesy, though, I will block your comments to help relieve the temptation you may have to take part in the material world. Blessings.”
Sara – That made me chuckle
Sara, that’s perfect.
It seems to me that if the spiritual teacher’s acceptance of money contradicts his or her own teachings, that’s one thing, but claiming that no spiritual teacher can ethically accept money simply assumes, with no basis, that all “spirituality” requires poverty. Like you say, Albert, it’s not even fully clear what spirituality is, but whatever it is it has so many groups, teachings and branches that making blanket statements about what it requires is nearly impossible.
Nice to see some updates around here, now start getting more active in the niche!
I still find it amazing that there are so many people out there who will spend hours and hours trying to attack others, yet have very little (or nothing) to say that’s really constructive. Spewing vulgarities and taunting are just immature acts that show little or no true understanding of the subject matter, because if they do, they would have disagreed with more class. Often they are just looking for a victim, and it’s kinda funny how they usually turn out to be the victims of their own rage and ignorance instead. Personally, I see no need to feed such energies.
Having said that, I think it all depends on what has been “preached” on the blog that determines if money is appropriately involved. If the blog talks endlessly about giving up all worldly attachments, that money is evil or campaigns about sacrificing self to help others, then they probably ought to be penalized for advertising or charging for their services. I have not come across any blog that goes to such extremes so far (maybe I’m just lucky or I’m just an idiot), and chances are I will not be subscribing to such blogs anytime within the next 1000 years.
Excellent topic for discussion Albert … and keep laughing!
@ Chris: Completely agree with you.
@ Glen: Thanks, good to see you here!
@ Irene: Very true, most of the time these attacks just backfire on them. Although to be honest I have lost it at my friends before and spewed a whole heap of vulgarities. And you’re right, I ended up being the idiot for it. It’s always good to have you around here.
***
And on that note, we’ve broken past the 20 comment barrier that has plagued the blog for the last few weeks! And the post hasn’t even been up a day! Hooray!
Man, what a rude dude that reader is. Advertising on blogs is so common place now I’m hard pressed to think *any* blog that doesn’t have it in one form or another.
As it the ads here are subtle enough so as not to distract from your content, but (ha, may I add) still sufficiently noticeable to be of benefit to your sponsors.
Most blogs aim to inform, advise, or help their readers in some way, so if a blog that focusses on spirituality can’t feature adverts, then by this guy’s … logic, no other blog should be able to either.
Hello Albert,
Everyone has spirituality, and those that bicker and moan, are just not happy with theirs. I fail to see how this guy can complain about a service that he gets for free himself and on the other hand denies you any financial reward for all the hours you put into such a fine informative blog, you are a mediator with a genuine interest for helping people. I feel your spirit I think he has just fell off the boat somewhere and can’t get back on without complaining.
I am happy, Best regards Rhonda
Hi Albert,
A blog takes a lot of time and expense to maintain and you aren’t charging me a nickle to be able to read all your articles and to get newsletters. How could I consume so much of your effort for free and then judge you about a few banners to help cover your expense? I see this as free Dhamma and have no problem the handful of tiny ads. I should actually click through them once in awhile to help out. I feel bad for people who are so lost they can’t see even the most simple balances in life. We are all there in ignorance at some point and all you can do sometimes is smile warmly and wish them the best.
Thanks for your work,
-Joe
Wow, the line about a reader attacking you and subjecting you to verbal abuse really got to me becuase I experienced this sort of thing not too long ago.
I was responding to a person who was seeking my advice about a woman friend with the understanding that if he wanted further advice, he’d have to pay for it. He seemed alright with it.
Then after receiving my first email with my thoughts on the situation, he asked how much I charged for my coaching. That did it.
He came back accusing me of making money for something I could do for free – the same way your attacker came at you.
Let me say for the record that people who attack you for charging something have issues with money on their own. It isn’t you but something deep within them that’s triggering the outburst. Maybe they’re having financial problems or are heavily in debt. Maybe they were brought up in a culture that expects to get things for free.
On the other hand, maybe you (and I) attracted that person to our lives becuase of our own misguided beliefs about money. Maybe we have secret fears of charging money for something like coaching. The funny thing is, we may be able to fool ourselves with this thinking but we can’t fool the universe. If we are thinking these thoughts, we will attract detractors like those people who attack us.
Your first reaction of laughter was actually a good sign. I know you used to be hurt by attacks like this before but it sounds like you’ve moved on and recognized them for what they were – opportunities for growth.
Great article! I see you’ve grown your blog tremendously to almost 3,000 subscribers. Congratulations! You’re doing fabulously. Good for you.
Hey guys, thank you so much for the support. It’s really good to have you guys here and good to hear all this. I was using the reader as a funny lead-in (wanted to inject some humor) to the main topic of spirituality and money. Please don’t get too caught up in the personal attack — as my good friend Stephen has mentioned, such attacks don’t really bother me anymore when they used to. Thank you all again
Great topic, Albert. I get people requesting my services for free quite frequently, and some people do bash me via email for charging money for services that are spiritual.
Here’s how I feel about that: We all invest ourselves with our money. We give our energy to what we give money to. When I charge for a reading or for a class, I feel that I get a far more invested participant than if I gave my services away for free. Occasionally, I will give hefty discounts to people who request them, or will offer someone a free reading. Inevitably, the reading isn’t received with the same level of importance, it does not have the same impact.
I’m highly invested in my spiritual development. I pay my teachers because of that investment, and I give my clients the opportunity to invest themselves in the same way.
Money is just how we exchange energy in the world. Everything else is our belief system.
Blessings,
Andrea
It seems to me that spirituality (at least in the form of traditional religion) has always been bound up with the idea of asceticism, as Obaid touched upon in his discussion of materialism. The most devoted Hindus became wandering beggars. Buddha renounced his earthly wealth. Christ told the rich young man to sell everything he had, and told the gathered crowd “you cannot serve both God and Money.” So we all have this cross-cultural, long-standing and pervasive underlying impression that righteousness = not making money. And because it’s so easy to get carried away with materialism (think of Jim Bakker’s air-conditioned doghouse!) it’s understandable that people would be cynical. I’m only just beginning to think that it’s OK to have more than the bare survival minimum myself. Grinding poverty does get stressful and demoralizing after a while.
Money in itself it’s not the problem. Making money your primary focus for life, that’s a big problem. Money should be a bi product of happiness in my humble opinion.
Thinking of a world without money is unreal. Using it from a different perspective, as a result of a rendered service, is just a manifestation of the act of giving and receiving.
I support your ads, as a way of being thankful for taking the time to share your knowledge with me and the rest of the world.
This post couldn’t have come a better time Albert. I am in the process of trying to bust the myth that spiritual teachers (especially me) should be poor. I recently created and launched a spiritual product on my blog. It is a coffee mug designed to aid in the awakening process. I’m happy with the sales so far, but I have had to delete a lot of negative comments. I will proceed guilt free now. Thank you!
Thanks for the acknowledgement Albert and also to CarolynB for the reference. Peace!
Peace to you, Obaid!
MonkMojo, I checked out your blog. LMAO.
Great stuff Andrea, Carolyn, Luis, Monk Mojo! Agreed with Carolyn, that mug is hilarious!
There are 32 comments before mine. So you are on the right track with this post
Perhaps a definition of what spirituality means is warranted. Does being spiritual means having to give up making money? A highly spiritual person that comes to mind is Deepak Chopra. I am sure that he earns royalties from the books that he sell and generates an income from the workshops that he conduct. But are any of his products or services free? No…I paid for every single book of his! So if he charges money for them, does that make him less spiritual?
I also think that we are all evolving at different stages of spirituality or consciousness. Perhaps if we reach arahant status or decide to ordain, can we say that we no longer charge money. Maybe by then, we are no longer blogging but stuck in a cave on a mountain where all food is easily obtained from nature.
@CarolynB
This idea of asceticism being found in faiths the world over is very true. But it seems to be a more recent distortion of earlier understanding, something perhaps of the Piscean age.
In traditions such as India, they speak of several paths to source/God. Broadly, they are the path of the heart, the path of action/perception, and the path of the intellect. Each of us tends to follow a blend but will also walk a little of each at some point. The majority of westerners are dominantly on the path of action.
If you look at the lifestyle suggested, the path of the heart and action are very much worldly householder paths. Only the lesser traveled path of the intellect suggests a monks lifestyle, but that has become the ‘way’.
Another concept is tapas or warming. The idea that some attention and effort be put to spiritual practice to prepare the way. But this has come to be understood as penance, essentially a victim view. (laughs)
(The same is true of much of traditional Christian thought vs what was apparently actually taught)
Things like detachment and non-covetousness have come to be practiced as austerities when they are symptoms of the loss attachment arising in connection to Self.
It’s all a kind of suffering and force as a means to the opposite, a rather odd approach. But the difference can be subtle.
Like everything else in life, money is not evil. It’s the love of money (the correct quote) that is, the possessiveness that leads to suffering. As Lynne Twist observed, this idea of necessary poverty arises in a concept of lack, not in what is real, not in the rich fullness of the present.
Albert, your blog rocks. I notice you are very conscious of issues other bloggers don’t even care about. That in itself is really refreshing to see.
As for the issue of ads, most attacks are totally rooted in belief systems. If you had gambling ads on an article about overcoming addiction, or porn ads on an article about strengthening a relationship, then I think that would give conflicting views to readers. But general contextual ads fine, I’ve found some interesting websites through Google ads I’ve clicked, to turn them off would be blocking out the flow of related information, not just the sponsorship aspect.
I can certainly come up with as strong of an argument for using ads as one for not using them. But when it comes down to it, if a person is avoiding all the information that has ads near it, then they are choosing to block a lot out — and that is most damaging to themselves more than anyone else.
- Alex
I’ve been reading your blog for some time. It’s truly inspirational. What I love are your anecdotes of your personal experiences. I used to wonder: how does he do it? Can a person truly be so conscious, living life with such equanimity? He can’t be real! This is all just theoretical; easy to say, hard to do. Then I read some of your personal examples, trust me, we have all been through the same thing at some point or other. And I go: Wow! So this is how to turn it around,all my small nagging negative thoughts. Truly inspiring that you can achieve this on an everyday level. Thank you always for sharing!
@ Evelyn: Good to have you here, as always
. I was reading somewhere (I think Wikipedia), that Deepak gets criticised because he actually says – to give up your money, while he lives in luxury. I’ve never read his works, is that true? Hehe, pretty funny if it is. Thank you for being here.
@ Alex: Thanks for the compliments, and the support. Appreciate it.
@ Min: You’re very welcome, and I’m glad that my struggles and anecdotes make a difference in the lives of others. It really is quite heartwarming to hear, so thanks so much.
I can sympathize with the readers who cannot distinguish between a “spiritual” predator and a personal development blogger, and therefore resort to tarring them all with the same brush.
I think we would have fewer reactionary cynics, if the PD bloggers would stop telling everyone to avoid negativity at all costs.
Don’t sweat it. It’s always something. %) The value you add deserves compensation. As long as we’re being spiritual here, even the Bible says that teachers deserve to be paid – using a metaphor about the ox getting to eat the grain he treads.
Peace
Tryllid
Haha, that is quite absurd. The advertisements help other businesses, so offering them isn’t destructive on any level. Everyone wins — the business that gets traffic, you who get beverage money and your readers get relevant ads (which I often click while browsing because they seem interesting).
I know this is probably a bit presumptuous, but I’ve finally started a personal development blog. Many friends and family members have been asking for my advice for quite some time, mostly because of my “alternative” approach to most concepts. I could have gone to an ivy league school, but ended up choosing community college for various reasons. I’ll be writing about this in the next post which will be published at some point this week.
If you don’t wish to link to the blog, I completely understand. I’ve already linked to you and Steve in the blogroll, but this was before I actually read the offer here — I was just linking because you guys rock. Don’t feel any obligation.
The URL is: http://www.SmartPersonalDevelopment.com
Looks like that did stir the pot a bit, missions accomplished.
Money makes you more of what you already are. If you are a good person…it gives you the opportunity to do more good. If you are a not-so-nice person, well…it gives you a lot more chances to be not-so-nice. So, really…I dont feel like the subjhect is terribly relevent.
To some extent, it seems to me that we (I say we because I have my own blog) are in the personal development business and not JUST the spirtuality business. Who wants to take advice about success and development from someone who is begging for alms? That doesn’t say “success” to most people.
And, lets face it, if you did see someone on the street in a robe begging for money odds are you walk by REALLY fast rather than ask about his opinions on enlightenment and spiritual development. No, when we want to talk about these things context and forums are neccassary. You have to look like you know what you are talking about and you have to have a place to say that also looks like you know what you are talking about.
Websites cost money. Blogging costs money. Products (books, tapes, CDs, coaching programs) cost money. You have to make money to keep up with these things and stay active.
The priest teaching his flock still has a chucrch that costs money.So do the robes. He still gets paid for his services.
Money is energy. If a spiritual teacher engages his/her time, resources and energy to teach and help somebody, isn’t it right to receive some energy in return? I think it is perfectly natural. Now, there are spiritual experiences, like insights and enlightenments, that cannot be bought or sold for all the money in the world, because they come as a gift, or as an act of mercy, if you like, from a higher instance than our limited human level of consciousness. I think these kinds of spiritual experiences should not to be put within the context of this discussion on spirituality and money, as they transcend this level of reasoning.
To demand services for free is theft of service. When did stealing become a part of one’s spiritual practice?
I want a spiritual teacher who can be free enough from encumbrances to help provide insights we seek. I would not be willing to demand such things to be given to me for free. I would not demand them because I do not like what that does to me.
And condemnation prior to investigation (pedophile?) May the Great Divine keep me from doing so.
Beautiful stuff everyone, thank you for the contributions. I’m grateful you are here and contributing. Wish I could reply individually but there’s just too much good stuff. All I can say is one more time: great stuff!
I largely agree – making money doing what you love is a great thing. And when you are doing what you love this tends to get rid of greed fairly readily I think. (I think consumerism is largely the result of people’s dissatisfaction from not being able to make their money from doing what they love.)
Now, to be a bit contrarian. The issue that this touches on is: what about poor people. If something is very important to life then maybe it should be freely available (health for wealth is immoral). There are various answers for this dilemma – bloggers providing a blog for free and then selling other stuff, professionals doing work pro-bono, volunteering in our free time and I guess many others besides.
A related issue. I think there are other measures of value than money. I would like to see other measures of value used.
Finally, most of us functioning quite well in a world money doesn’t rule. The world of our friends and family. This is our daily reality – money does not rule in the parts of our world that are most important to us. I’d like to see this world grow bigger.
Whenever I see someone complaining about a blogger making money, I just don’t even know what to say. I invite the complainer to give a logical reason why a blogger shouldn’t be allowed to make money.
Once I wrote a post, I don’t even remember what it was about but I mentioned the idea of using a blog to make money. Someone left a comment showing he was annoyed by the idea of making money from blogging. This was a first time commenter, so I clicked through and saw he had a pretty new blog, with some AdSense ads! So I emailed him and asked why he had AdSense ads on his blog. He replied “Touche!” and laughed at how inconsistent his words were with his actions.
I can’t imagine why anyone would think a blogger shouldn’t make money from their blog (other than the fact that having too many ads is tacky, but that’s about tackiness and not money). For critics to have a leg to stand on, I think they’d have to give up all their income streams first–job, bank account interest, etc.
Evan – in my city, there is a homeless guy who uses the library computers to maintain a homeless activism blog. It’s had a powerful effect on some quarters, including city policy. The Olympics are here in a couple of years so there’s a lot of attention on the subject re: displacement, etc.
In similar ways to being stuck in a spiritual rut, being poor can be being stuck in a poverty rut. There are many stories of people climbing out of abject poverty to do well. But the person must help themselves, be able to see outside the box of their life. Otherwise, the reality just reinforces itself. The lessons of spirit are the lessons of all life.
I would also suggest you avoid thinking of the poor as victims. That is NOT what they need. It only reinforces that reality. We may also assume that someone poor is unhappy. That is often not the case. Books like Soul of Money explore this. Money is not happiness.
Making money on a blog has nothing to do with poverty. Nor is it anti-spiritual. It is a simple practical matter and for most blogs, the revenue amounts to a tip jar. So much ado about nothing.
Hi Davidya,
On social equity I don’t think I can better the formula of “from each according to their ability, to each according to their need”.
I do wish making money from blogs was simple. I want to make money from mine.
My content is content and the very best ideas, information and resources I can give my readers. Never do I advertise in the content of my blog. My sidebar is my opportunity to monetize my blog while offering my readers valuable services and information. But the choice is the reader’s – they choose whether to click. I have never gone to my reader’s home and made them click on an advertisement.
Thanks, Tom (TRCoach)
Thank you again everyone for the continued discussions
Hello Albert,
I only recently found your blog, but I’m going to stick to it from now on because I enjoy reading what you have to say and because you and I share the same missions: helping other people get the best out of this life.
You chose to talk about a great subject! Congratulations on that! People that have a blog, that tries to help others in any way or form possible, experience this if they have any type of ad on their site.
Now, let me ask you something. Why do people start to pick on others that are trying to help and that is evidently but what they do and say? Like in your case, for example, it is obvious that you want to help and the fact that you admitted that you got into this mainly for the money but the changed your focus, means a whole lot to me and to others reading here.
People pick on others because they are either jealous that others have more success or feel that they could do the same thing, and earn the money, and feel that what you are doing, is very easy to do. And because this is easy in their eyes, they feel that you (or anyone doing this) shouldn’t get any money from it.
People that do this don’t actually realize that when they point their finger at someone, their actually pointing at themselves. Just try to point now and see that 3 fingers are actually pointing towards yourself.
I say, if you write with passion and love for people, you have the right to put ads wherever you want! You do the writing and it’s your site. People that love what you do will always read and understand what you do and why you do it.
I embrace you,
Razvan Dobre
Hey Razvan, I really appreciate your vote of confidence. I agree – they think blogging is a very simple thing to do, but it is actually a really time consuming thing. If I didn’t enjoy it so much I would have spent my time elsewhere, which is actually much more lucrative in terms of hours spent to financial reward. Like I said I would probably do this even if I didn’t make a cent, but that doesn’t stop me from paying some bills through my work. Thank you for understanding
You are welcome! Keep doing what you are doing and everything will be fine, no matter what others will say!
I embrace you,
Razvan Dobre
Hi
I just found your blog which is quite interesting and you also provide the information very related to everyone. It also makes others relate themselves. You have done a great job for others even to earn more
Thank you SS Kumar
I think you if you charge people, or gain a profit from spirituality you’ve missed the point of it. If you understand it you will offer your services for free for the purpose of spreading happiness. If you want Comforts, and nice things, you’ve missed the point. Nice things mean nothing, as all they are is objects of desire (Is this not something we’re supposed to reject as spiritualists?) Comforts… Shelter, Food, Clean Drinking Water, and Fire are the basic needs of a spiritualist. If you need “Nice things” and “comforts; In your “Soda pop while blogging”… You have missed the point. and until you can abstain from those things you’re still searching… those who can not do; teach… and those who do are the best to learn from. I hope those of you who feel it is alright to charge for your “Experience” take a good look in the mirror, for you are fakes. I don’t claim to be a teacher, nor do I claim to be enlightened, but I’ve never offered my advice or guidance for a fee, or expected remittance. Shame on all of you.
To exist in the world, and not be a part of it.
I believe that includes money.
Hmm…very interesting perspective, thanks for sharing. I think it all falls back to the definition of spirituality. There are many different traditions. I’m not from the tradition that we have to give up all comforts. My definition of spirituality is strictly the end of suffering, and as such does not clash with making advertisement money from my work. Besides, I don’t charge a single cent – it’s free to everyone.
Also, please refrain from insulting my readers in the future, you’re more then welcome to say shame on me, but not my readers – they’ve done you no harm. And neither have I, come to think of it.
Goodness, DNM has some resistance. One of the details of spirituality that has been lost to many is confusing desires with the attachment to desires. That is missing the actual point. Without desires, we would cease to act and soon cease to be. Spirituality is not about doing without. It is about discovery of who we really are and releasing the attachments and identifications born of ego, the me.
If you think you can release attachments by denying yourself, you are mistaken. Indeed, you may be adding another layer of resistance to overcome. Some new concept of the me.
To exist in the world and not be part of it – this is NOT about making a mood of being unattached. That is simply more illusion. It is a description of the experience of first awakening, What comes naturally when we become that which is.
It is also a temporary experience. With further development, that separate world comes to be found within. No longer separate at all.
Shame? That’s right up, or rather down, there with guilt. I trust your guidance does not include such message, oh one of the pious me.
Hi DNM,
With desire and attachment I’m with Davidya.
Being in the world but not of it certainly includes our relationship to money. But I don’t think being without money is being not of it. I think this would take us out of the world.
I don’t charge for my experience. I charge for my time and work. And because I need money to live on. No one has ever complained to me about my fees (when I charged them – I’m about to again).
Teaching is a separate skill to doing. Often those who are naturally good at something are rotten teachers – they are reduced to saying thing like, “You’re doing it wrong, here let me show you” – in short they can’t relate to others who aren’t naturally good. They can’t break the task down into smaller chunks.
I like your passion and that you care about this. I do have some disagreements though.
I lived in India and studied with a great teacher for 10 years who used to say, “Who better than those who know and share the truth, to have beautiful things.” What he was basically saying was that when you have a beautiful heart and freely share that wisdom, the world matches that vibration and rewards you with a good life; and that makes perfect sense.
It is important to remember that money is energy, green energy. The way to always have money is to stay open to having it. This has nothing to do with either attachment or aversion, but simply being open to all the world has to offer.
Steve Pavlina may not talk about himself as a spiritual person but he knows that consciousness IS spirituality – they are the same!! There is no way to be conscious without being spiritual, it’s just that people have funny ideas about what being spiritual means. It doesn’t mean not getting paid for what you do if what you do is add consciousness to the world. That, more than anything, is worth something.
Would love to have visitors:http://coachgirl.typepad.com/ No nonsense, Straight-up Blogging from Life Coach or http://www.CoachGirl.com Coaching for Authenticity.
Hey Chandra – good stuff. Thanks for sharing.
(And thanks to Davidya and Evan too)
This is the first time I visit your blog. The title “Spirituality and Money” captured my attention right away because I have learned from the saints and gurus that spirituality and money are antithesis to each other, although from our experience we know that we need both.
I don’t have great wisdom to share, but I think spirituality can bring happiness to myself and people around me. Money does not bring happiness, but it does bring occasional pleasure and reduces pain. Pleasure is not what spiritualists should seek, but the need to reduce pain, I think, is universal.
I am glad that you are not a saint or guru yet, so that I can relay myself to you, look up to you, and learn from your blog. I really cannot relate to DOESNOTMATTER who seems, in the beginning of his comment, to be at a higher realm. But then, the “shame on all of you” comment in the end suggests the contrary.
Hey Tony, thanks for sharing.
I’m not really someone to look up to, just someone who’s writing about what he’s going through, so to speak. Does Not Matter seems to have his heart in the right place, but may be a little bit confused about certain issues.
We live in a material world surrounded by material things. Ppl who say that in order to be spiritual we need to first give away all our possessions are just being ignorant. As I see it, they value money for the wrong reasons. They think money equals greed..money equals superficiality…shallowness. their thoughts associated with money are negative ones. And because of that they think its wrong when spirituality is added to the equation. I believe that money is important in certain areas of our lives and unimportant in others.
Hey Cindee, that is a very eloquent way of putting it. Thank you.
Money and Spirituality is an interesting topic. Many of the worlds religions preach the evils of money or of acquiring money. And many times spiritual leaders are asked to give up their worldly goods, purportedly to attain some sort of higher existence. Yet the Catholic church is the single most wealthy institution in the world. Then you have Joel Osteen who is making billions of dollars off his “congregation”. Reiki masters charge obscene amounts of money to teach their knowledge.
If you are a monk who takes a vow of poverty, then you are forever cared for and protected by the church. Same as a nun. If you are a blogger sharing spiritual advice, there is no church that is taking care of you. There is no one paying you for your wisdom. Then by all means, if you can make a few cents off of Google, go for it.
Yet, I do think there is a lack of authenticity in someone who claims to be a spiritual leader and wants to make money off of it. The conflict I think comes in the idea that spiritual knowledge should lead one to want to bring betterment to humanity. This is most often considered to require selflessness. How does one place a value on spiritual knowledge, especially if it could potentially help humanity?
Heya Erin – thank you so much for that. As I understand you, it is OK if we’re doing it for the purposes of paying the bills, but once it gets to the point of amassing wealth, it’s a different story?
Hi Erin,
In the religions the negative view of money is due to it encouraging reliance on self rather than god (egotism).
This can of course lead to the egotism of: see how good I am, I don’t rely on money.
The religions usually encourage a lifestyle of enough for most of their followers, poverty being saved for a few.
This has it’s drawbacks. But then so does the crass consumerism and conspicuous consumption of our culture. Where are the modern equivalents of the great temples?
@Evan
I completely agree with you view on the egotism of “see how good I am, I don’t rely on money.”
It’s just as annoying as the people who think they are special because they do have money. Maybe more.
@Albert
Yeah, that’s kinda how I feel about. I think even Jesus said something specific about the amassing of wealth, but I don’t remember.
On top of that I would say that it seems counter-intuitive that spending one’s time amassing wealth would ever bring spiritual enlightenment. Because it puts the focus on the material world.
But yet one cannot be expected to starve to death while spreading spiritual wisdom.
I don’t think you are earning a hefty sum of money from Google by blogging so the benefits is far far far better for us than to you. Its just fair enough that you were paid by something valuable you say or do.Needless to say, the money doesn’t come from us, your readers.
@ Bhelle: Cheers for that
Blessings to you!
Hi All, hi Albert,
my belief about money aligns with the beliefs of some of the commentors: I belief money is neutral, is is just a medium for energy exchange. What you do with it depends only on the mindset or level of consciousness of the doer. It is like water, you can grow flowers with it or you can drown a person in it. The water is not responsible for any of those actions.
There is one difference though: money is man-made. It was created when the exchange of goods for goods was not practicable any more. The medium money stands for the value of the goods and can be echanged for other things we value.
So why should spirituality have a problem with the exchange of values? And so with money? Spirituality hasn’t a problem with water, has it?
Hi Myrko,
The dimension of value adds the realm of ethics. E.g. at the moment – exchanging pieces of paper that banks didn’t know the value of is having consequences. What to do about this delusion has all manner of ethical dimensions (not to mention very practical ones). This is why values make a difference (as you point out these things aren’t ‘natural’ but man made and that gives us a whole different level of responsibility.
Hey Myrko, I love the water analogy. Love it
Great article. I agree that in this culture living off the kindness of strangers would indeed be a difficult task.
In this hard times, it is indeed hard to put a thin line between money and spirituality.Nevertheless, it is possible to maintain good ethics and values.Thanks for sharing your analog on this matter!
Great topic and article.
Personally I think that work,in general, should be remunerated and blogging and Adwords allows it to be done with great merit. NOW, people are getting paid for what they are worth: the quality of their content and writing.
The money can give an incentive and or help bloggers sustain themselves and continue doing what they are best at in the longer-term.
Cheers
Thank you everyone
Others might use spirituality to earn money just as you said “Others even attack the shirt / dress they are wearing, or the beautiful necklace they have got on – anything that reeks of luxury” but not all though.
I believe that spirituality does not mean that one will deprive itself the living comfortably. There’s nothing wrong with living comfortably as long as it is not extravagant. Spirituality means living a life with a purpose.
As you grow in awareness/consciousness you automatically become less detached to things. Being entrenched in ego and saying I don’t want money I’m going to live without is no good.
I think concept and ideas are silly. Feelings are the most important things. Feelings cause us to take action and improve our lives. Ideas like attachment and world possessions are ridiculous unless you have the inner drive to take a step in that direction.
Hey Steve, good stuff. Completely agreed – attachment is internal. Someone was saying on a video criticising Buddhism – does that mean all the homeless people are happy because they have no money? He forgets this vital principle you point out.
Your article is very insightful. I agree with the things you said. I personally believe that money isn’t everything but without it we’ll be miserable.
Ran into this article today that I thought appropriate to this discussion. On why we need to address the Shadow of Money
http://www.shiftinaction.com/node/8070
Hey Davidya, thanks for that. I’ll go check it out now!
Great article. Bill Bodhri wrote a funny article about this at the meditationexpert site. The article is up at: http://www.meditationexpert.co.....t_you.html
Hey Greg, great article, – loved it!
As a very religious person I find that there is nothing wrong with combining money and spirituality. If someone wants to preach the word and teach others about it should he not recieve some kind of compensation at the same time for it?
We cant expect everything to come for free. Now at the same token I dont exactly think that people should be grossly compesated for it. I live in Orange County and the largest church around here is saddleback, and they take in MILLIONS and the founding preachers are now multi-millionaires due to how large they have grown it.
Honestly to me its all about balance in the end. Money isn’t everything, but on the same hand so is spirituality.
oh forgot to add, great article btw
Hey OC – thanks for the comment.
It’s great to see reasoned and balanced opinions, as always.
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